HC Deb 29 March 1960 vol 620 cc1126-30
11. Mr. W. Clark

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many local authorities are not wholly operating the improvement grants.

Mr. H. Brooke

Of the 1,468 local authorities with powers to make discretionary grants, eighty-nine have so far made none. This may include some which have never received application for a grant. The making of standard grants is, of course, mandatory on all local authorities.

Mr. Clark

If my right hon. Friend cannot alter the legislation in order to make discretionary grants compulsory, I wonder if he would consider sending a circular to local authorities impressing upon them the urgency and importance of making discretionary grants in their entirety? There are many local authorities throughout the country—my hon. Friend said eighty-nine—which do not, in effect, operate the scheme. There are many others which operate it only partially. The constituency I represent happens to be one. Does not the Minister think it extremely unfair that the public, who think that these grants are available to them, eventually do not get paid because this is within the discretion of the local authorities?

Mr. Brooke

I do not think that we should make all these grants compulsory. I believe that would be impossible, however carefully one drafted the legislation, but I thoroughly agree with the general tenor of what my hon. Friend has said. I doubt whether this is the time for another circular, but in speeches I constantly make reference to the need for local authorities to exercise their powers in respect of discretionary grants, and I trust that my hon. Friend's Question will direct further attention to it.

24. Mrs. Slater

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the number of owner-occupied houses and the number of landlord-owned houses in England and Wales, and the number in each category which have been improved with grant since 1949 to 31st December. 1959.

Mr. H. Brooke

I estimate that 5 million houses in England and Wales are owner-oooupied and that 5.9 million are owned by private landlords. The total number of private houses improved with the help of grants up to the end of 1959, was 209,921, but I cannot say how many were paid to owner-occupiers and landlords respectively. I have asked local authorities to make this distinction in their returns from the beginning of 1960.

Mrs. Slater

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for taking that step, but is it not also true that there are about 1 million owner-occupied and 3 million landlord-owned structurally sound houses? Further, is it not true that of the 1 million owner-occupied houses, up to the end of last year about 13.5 per cent. had improvement grants, whereas only 0.5 per cent. of the landlord-owned houses had improvement grants? Does not that show that the Minister ought to do something very much more drastic than has been done so far to persuade landlords that they have a responsibility in this matter?

Mr. Brooke

I cannot confirm all the hon. Lady's figures, but I am extremely anxious that these grants should be used by landlords as well as owner-occupiers. It will be interesting to see the figures which I have now asked local authorities to let me have.

Mr. Gower

Is not the superior condition of owner-occupied houses, in many cases, a very good reason why we should never cease to try to extend the owner-occupation of private houses?

27. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the number of owner-ocupied houses and of private landlords' houses in Salford, and the number in each category which have been improved with grant since 1949.

Mr. H. Brooke

The total number of privately owned houses in Salford is about 43,000, and the total number improved with grant since 1949 is only 173, but I have not got the further information desired in the Question.

Mr. Allaun

Perhaps I could help the Minister. Is he aware that not one private landlord in Salford has taken advantage of the 1949 Act, and only seven have taken advantage of the 1959 Act, despite the fact that 11,000 people visited the demonstration houses last July, so widespread is the mothers' longing for a house with a bath and hot water? Does not this show that the Act has failed, although it is well intentioned, and that private landlordism has also failed?

Mr. Brooke

I am sorry that the experience in Salford has been disappointing. It has been much less satisfactory there than in many other cities.

Mr. M. Stewart

Can the Minister give us some examples of cities where it has been very much more satisfactory?

Mr. Brooke

There is a later Question on that point.

29. Mrs. Slater

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the number of owner-occupied houses and the number of landlord-owned houses in Stoke-on-Trent; and the number in each category which have been improved with grant since 1949 to 31st December, 1959.

Mr. H. Brooke

The total number of privately owned houses in Stoke-on-Trent is about 59,000, and the total number improved with grant is 1,182, but I have not got the further information desired in the Question.

Mrs. Slater

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, although my authority's figures may be a little better than Salford's, the number of owner-occupied houses that have received improvement grants is about twenty times as great as the number of landlord-owned houses? Only sixty-five private landlords received improvement grants, in spite of the row of houses which were improved by the local authorities and put on exhibition. What does the right hon. Gentleman think can be done to make landlords realise their moral responsibility in this matter?

Mr. Brooke

I am hoping very much to visit Stoke-on-Trent next week, and I should like to discuss with the city council a possible extension of publicity.

Mr. Page

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many local authorities deliberately discriminate against applications by landlords—[Interruption.] I repeat—many local authorities deliberately discriminate against applications by landlords and grant applications by owner-occupiers, although the houses concerned are in exactly the same condition, and even in the same street?

Mr. Brooke

I am very much afraid that that is so. [Interruption.] I hope that the feeling shown in this House today in favour of a generous use of these grants will be reflected in the actions of all local authorities.

Mr. Donnelly

On a point of order. When a military commander or a representative of a foreign Government is attacked in this House, is it not normal for a charge made against the integrity of the person concerned to be substantiated? The hon. Member for Crosby (Mr. Page) has just made a charge against the integrity of certain public bodies. Is it appropriate for him to do so without substantiating those charges?

Mr. Speaker

I do not know which public authorities were referred to.

Mr. M. Stewart

Is the position in Stoke-on-Trent better than it is in Sal-ford? If so, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is not all that encouraging? Is he prepared to say which authorities discriminate in the manner alleged by his hon. Friend, and also to say how it is possible to discriminate against applications which have never been made?

Mr. Brooke

I will certainly give the hon. Member any information I can in answer to a Question put down.

Mr. Lipton

Does the Minister think that the moral responsibility of landlords, or the desire to effect improvements, will be considerably improved by allowing them to charge whatever premiums they like to their victimised tenants after 6th July next?

Mr. Brooke

My present concern is to do everything in my power to encourage and stimulate landlords of tenanted properties to use the improvement grants system for the benefit of themselves and their tenants.