§ 41. Mr. W. Hamiltonasked the Prime Minister if, in view of the recent events in South Africa, he will now withdraw the invitation to the Union's Prime Minister to attend the forthcoming Commonwealth conference.
§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. R. A. Butler)I have been asked to reply.
No, Sir.
§ Mr. HamiltonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there will be many people not unpleased with that reply? Will he nevertheless give a further assurance that the Government will stop equivocating on this question of South Africa? Does not he think the time has now come when the Government ought to consider whether we are paying too high a price for the continued Commonwealth membership of this Nazi-like Government?
§ Mr. ButlerI do not accept that such wide constitutional questions arise from this Question and Answer. The Prime Ministers of the Commonwealth are invited to this conference, and among them is the Prime Minister of South Africa. By long-standing agreement internal policy is excluded from these meetings. In reference to the Question on the Order Paper in the name of the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan), which was not asked, I think we ought to take the Prime Minister's words that they agreed that
when we have differences let us face them clearly and see them for what they are. One great advantage is that we can then recognise exactly how far they extend.I think any interchange which takes place is a good thing, and I cannot accept that the policy of Her Majesty's Government has been equivocal.
§ Mr. GaitskellDoes the right hon. Gentleman imply, by his answer, that the question of apartheid and racial controversy inside South Africa will not be discussed at the Commonwealth conference?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir, that would be a deduction which I could not accept. It is not usual for the agenda of a Commonwealth conference to be published or to reveal exactly the subjects 1135 discussed, but I would not make a deduction such as the right hon. Gentleman suggests.
§ Sir G. NicholsonWould not it be as well in considering African affairs if we in this country follow the principle which we hope will be followed by all races in Africa, namely, to remember that we do not promote love by stoking up the fires of hate?
§ Mr. S. SilvermanWill the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that a great many people in this country would desire that, far from withdrawing the invitation, this gentleman should be actively encouraged to come here, and that while he is here he should be given every possible opportunity of seeing democracy at work?
§ Mr. ButlerThere are obvious advantages in visits being paid either way. I think that when any of us go abroad we learn, and when visitors come to this country they learn. I think this interchange is one of the objects of such a conference. I would add that in my reply to the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition I was referring particularly to private discussions.
§ Mr. HamiltonCan the right hon. Gentleman reconcile his earlier statement about equivocation with the terms of the Government Amendment on the Order Paper, in which they sympathise with the shooters and the shot? Can he, further, comment on the reports in the Press this morning that there are member Governments of the Commonwealth which have said that apartheid will be raised at the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' conference?
§ Mr. ButlerI cannot comment on the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's suppplementary question until I have examined the reports. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will help to draw them to my attention. With regard to the former part of his supplementary question, I have nothing to add. I do not regard the Amendment on the Order Paper as being otherwise than clear to preserve the natural position of the House of Commons, whose jurisdiction and responsibility are clearly defined; and it goes on to express deep sympathy on what has happened.
§ 45. Mr. Brockwayasked the Prime Minister if, in view of the public's uncertainty about the character of the forthcoming Commonwealth conference, he will publish the text of the invitation sent out to Commonwealth Prime Ministers, together with the text of his explanations to Commonwealth Prime Ministers on the procedure at both full and smaller meetings.
§ Mr. R. A. ButlerI have been asked to reply.
No, Sir. The character of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' conference will be no different from that of previous conferences in this series. I see no reason to depart from the usual rule that communications between Commonwealth Prime Ministers are confidential.
§ Mr. BrockwayMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that both the Prime Minister of New Zealand and the Prime Minister of the Federation of Malaya wished the subject of racial relations in South Africa to be discussed at this conference, and whether that will be permitted? Secondly, can he give this House an assurance that the Prime Minister has not promised Dr. Verwoerd, the Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa, either that this matter will not be discussed, or if it is discussed, that the attitude of the British Government will be that it is an internal matter which should be outside the general sphere of discussion?
§ Mr. ButlerI cannot go further than is constitutionally usual in reference to what is revealed and what is not revealed in relation to a Commonwealth conference. It would not be according to precedent as carried out by the party opposite when in power or by our Governments since we have been in power. But I think that if we realise what the Prime Minister has endeavoured to do in this field we can be satisfied that there will be, as I told the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition, opportunity for frank interchanges during the course of these visits.
§ Mr. WadeIn view of the fact that the Security Council of the United Nations may be meeting at the same time as the Commonwealth conference, would the right hon. Gentleman indicate to the Prime Minister that it would add 1137 to the prestige of the British Commonwealth as a multi-racial Commonwealth if there were a similarity of views and of voting on the part of all, or at any rate the great majority, of the Commonwealth countries at meetings of the United Nations?
§ Mr. ButlerIt has long been clear that it is desirable there should be as much unity as possible in the Commonwealth. But it is a very wide and far-flung organisation with a great variety of views, and it takes a great deal of wisdom to carry it all together.
§ Mr. GaitskellWill the right hon. Gentleman clear up one point? In answer to an earlier supplementary question, he said it was not the custom for the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' conference to consider the internal affairs of any one country. But he also said, in answer to a supplementary question of mine, that this did not preclude them from discussing apartheid and the racial policy of the South African Government. Are we to understand, therefore, that those policies are not regarded by the British Government as the internal affairs of the South African Government?
§ Mr. ButlerI am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. He will remember that immediately afterwards I used the expression that such questions would be most likely to arise in private discussions which take place. Normally, the internal affairs of a particular Government are not on the agenda of the Commonwealth conference.