HC Deb 23 March 1960 vol 620 cc478-80
20. Mr. Albu

asked the Minister of Transport if he will list those classes of matters affecting the administration of the nationalised industries within his general sphere of responsibility upon which he is now prepared to answer Questions, despite previous refusals to answer on the ground that they were matters of day-to-day administration by the industry concerned.

Mr. Marples

No, Sir. As my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House stated on 25th February, 1960, there can be no hard-and-fast formula by which these matters could be identified.

Mr. Albu

Does not the Minister think that, after the statement by 'the Leader of the House, there is now some confusion? Under the custom of the House, the Table is unable to accept Questions on matters to which a Minister has previously refused to reply. Unless the Minister will now indicate those further matters to which he is willing to reply, it is impossible to put down Questions to him.

Mr. Marples

As Chatham once said, "I am responsible for nothing but what I control". It is very difficult for a Minister of Transport to be asked questions about why a particular train was late from X to Y, or sometimes even why toilet paper was not there—a question which is often asked. Those are questions of day-to-day management and are not really the responsibility of the Minister.

Mr. Benn

The right hon. Gentleman knows very well that the Leader of the House made a statement about this which was intended to ease the situation. Does the Minister realise that, unless a move is made by him and others with similar responsibilities which can be noticed at the Table, there will be no improvement?

Mr. Marples

I have my right hon. Friend's statement here. He said that there was no very great scope for extension. He said that Ministers can answer Questions only on matters for which they have a recognised responsibility. He went on to say: … they may from time to time be concerned with other questions of broad policy affecting the industries."—{OFFICIAL REPORT, 25th February, 1960; Vol. 618, c. 577.] If the hon. Gentleman will look at the statement again carefully, he will see that my right hon. Friend left it for Mr. Speaker and the Clerks at the Table.

Mr. Driberg

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the difficulty that he refers to about the Minister answering about trains being late, and so on, was not found insuperable when the Minister of War Transport had to answer Questions of precisely that kind?

Mr. Marples

That was a good many years ago, and the railways were not nationalised then.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

I was the Minister who had to answer those Questions. May I ask the Minister if he remembers that the railways were then under full national control and that I found it a great advantage to answer as many Questions as possible?

Mr. Marples

That is precisely the point. They were under full national control then, and now with nationalisation they are not under full national control.

Mr. Benn

Is the Minister aware that it will not—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is impossible to make any progress with trains or Questions or anything else if hon. Members will shout.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

Is the Minister aware that under his powers to give general directions he can, if he desires to, control any part of the policy? Is he aware that if he answers Questions about things that go wrong with the nationalised industries, as I did very frequently when Minister of Fuel and Power— [Interruption.]—he will find it of great advantage to all concerned if he gives the House the full facts; and that that is one of the great advantages of nationalisation as compared with private enterprise?

Mr. Marples

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman considers that to be one of the advantages of nationalisation, but I do not think that the Minister can give broad directives as to whether a train shall be delayed, or clean, or that sort of thing. Quite honestly, I think that I should answer only Questions about matters for which I am responsible, and that I should not be responsible for things that I do not control.