Pigs

HC Deb 21 March 1960 vol 620 cc4-8

8. Mr. Lipton

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what estimate he has made of increased pig production resulting from the recent Price Review.

Mr. Godber

The effective increase of 9d. a score in the standard price for pigs is designed to secure a moderate increase in the breeding herd.

Mr. Lipton

The Minister of Agriculture and the Joint Parliamentary Secretary keep talking about a "moderate increase", but what do they mean by a moderate increase? What is the wretched pig producer supposed to do? Having made a miserably small and belated concession to pig producers in their dire need, will not the Minister now be a little more forthcoming to them? After all, the time is rapidly approaching when the only people who can afford to produce or breed pigs will be Surtax payers anxious to lose money for tax purposes.

Mr. Godber

I think that the hon. Member's comments are a trifle extravagant. The incentive given by the Price Review will, I think, produce definite results. But I remind the hon. Member that the Government do not believe that we should set precise targets before the farmers. We do not believe that it is for the man in Whitehall to decide these matters. We believe that the farmers themselves are quite capable of deciding in the light of the Price Review decision.

Mr. Willey

In view of the very serious disappointment that the pig producers have expressed following the Price Review, will the Government look again at the question of pig production? Will they seriously consider more orderly means of marketing or some other steps to help this industry?

Mr. Godber

As I do not accept the first premise on which that question was based, the rest of it is somewhat obscure.

Mr. Peart

When the Minister uses the words "moderate increase", is it because the Government are thinking in terms of increasing imports?

Mr. Godber

Certainly not. If home production is encouraged to rise, I would certainly not have thought that that was the indication. In the Price Review we have encouraged the production of pigs to rise.

Mr. Prior

Will my hon. Friend take note of the fact that since the Price Review and in the last few weeks the prices of breeding stock have risen considerably at sales throughout the country?

Mr. Godber

Yes, Sir, I had noted that fact. I have every confidence that we shall see an increase in production.

Mr. Mackie

What does the Minister mean by an effective 9d. per score? If the support price falls below the guarantee price, does it affect the pork price, too? It is not an effective 9d. increase over the whole of the industry unless it includes pork, is it?

Mr. Godber

I think that it is an effective increase. Although we have given 3d. on the standard price, we have also taken the quality premiums right out of the guarantee. Previously they had to be taken from the guarantee, and that was equivalent in itself to a reduction of 6d. to the pork pig producer. The pork pig producer will now benefit by 9d. a score.

11. Mr. Loughlin

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, in view of the lack of confidence of the pig producers, he will indicate the level of the pig herd he considers to be in the national interest; and if he will estimate the difference in the support cost for this number and that which would be necessary for a national herd of 5 million pigs.

Mr. Godber

It is not the Government's policy to set precise production targets for particular commodities. The Government do, however, give general guidance and fix guaranteed prices at the Annuel Review determination, with due regard to all considerations. The second part of the Question, does not, therefore, arise.

Mr. Loughlin

Is not the Minister aware that the pig producers have expressed great concern in recent weeks as to the Government's intention with relation to the pig herd? Will he not give the industry the guidance for which it asks and say that a 5 million pig herd is the figure which it is desirable to try to attain?

Mr. Godber

No, I do not think that it would help to set any precise figure. We have given a definite encouragement in the Price Review in the ways which have been set out fully in the White Paper. We are providing the increased guarantee price. As I explained to the hon. Member for Enfield, East (Mr. Mackie), we are providing for the quality premiums to be taken out of the guarantees. We have also reduced the stabilising limits. These are all designed to encourage producers, and I think they will take advantage of them.

Mr. Willey

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary tell us a little more about this? Have the Ministry any figures which they keep to themselves? Two years ago there was a reduction of 2s. a score. We have now had some measures which, according to the Government, are designed to increase the size of the herd. Surely the industry should have some idea of what the Government have in mind.

Mr. Godber

I think that the industry has some idea. The hon. Member says that we decreased the price two years ago, as indeed we did at a time when the subsidy bill was at a very high level and it was clear that there was over-production for the need of the market. The position has now changed and we are giving a certain amount of stimulus which we hope will restore the balance.

18. Mr. Willey

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what has been the reduction in the numbers of the total pig herd over the latest available 12-month period.

Mr. Godber

The December, 1959, census for England and Wales showed a fall of 725,000 in the total herd and 72,000 in the breeding herd compared with twelve months earlier. The March sample results, being published today, show a fall of 810,000 in the total herd but only 26,000 in the breeding herd, compared with a year before and a rise of 12,000 in the breeding herd between December, 1959, and March, 1960.

Mr. Willey

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary say now whether this drastic fall in the pig herd was calculated by the Government or whether the Government miscalculated it?

Mr. Godber

My right hon. Friend made it quite clear on several occasions in the past that the fall has been somewhat larger than we had expected. It is for this reason that recent Price Review determinations have been calculated to give some modest encouragement.

Mr. Willey

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary give us the figure, if the fall has been larger than he expected it to be?

Mr. Godber

As I explained earlier, we did not attach a precise figure. This must depend on market demands and market needs. It is not for the Government to set a definite figure. We must be guided by the requirements of the market in this as in all other agricultural commodities.