Warning System (Hansard, 17 March 1960)

§ 34. Mr. Zilliacus
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he has taken, or proposes to take, to adapt his civil defence policy to the short notice of the arrival of rockets expected from the Fylingdales early warning station; and whether he will make a statement.

§ 35. Mr. Warbey
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the reference in the Defence White Paper to the development of the civil defence warning and monitoring system, what steps he is taking to bring up to date the warning system outlined in pamphlet No. 2 of Volume 1 of the Civil Defence Manual published in 1956, providing for a fall-out warning system supplementary to an attack warning system, in order to relate both to the short notice of the arrival of rockets expected from the Fylingdales early warning station; and whether he will make a statement.

§ 37. Mr. Swingler
asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what modifications in civil defence policy have been made necessary by the proposed establishment of the Fylingdales early warning station.

§ Mr. R. A. Butler
As I informed the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Zilliacus) on 28th January last, developments in missiles do not affect the 1475 need to plan to take full advantage for civil defence purposes of any period of alert. Arrangements are being made under which it will be possible to distribute a warning originated at Fylingdales Moor to warning points throughout the country in a matter of seconds. No alteration is required in the planned development of the United Kingdom warning and monitoring system.

§ Mr. Zilliacus
Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that as far back as 21st November, 1957, he assured me that the Government's civil defence policy rested on the proposition that they would have sufficient advance notice of the outbreak of hostilities to evacuate 12 million people? What has happened in the present circumstances to the policy of evacuation? When will he be able to give us a report on that?

§ Mr. Butler
If the hon. Member wishes to put a Question on the Paper about evacuation, I will answer it. I think that he fails on every occasion when he asks such a Question to differentiate between the final warning which would come from Fylingdales and the general period of alert which we could reasonably expect in a time of tension. It is that period of alert which can be used to such advantage by our civil defenders.

§ Mr. Warbey
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept the view expressed by Sir Frederick Brundrett yesterday that the defence of this country from rockets is never likely to be possible? If so, is he saying that he is devising a system of communications which will enable the ordinary citizen to take effective protective measures in a space of four minutes?

§ Mr. Butler
No, Sir. That again illustrates that the hon. Member and his hon. Friends are quite unable to differentiate between the general alert in a period of tension and the final four-minute warning. It is in the longer period that we should be able to do something useful in the realm of civil defence. It is no tribute to our people to say that they are not able to take advantage of civil defence to the extent to which we have been able to organise it.

§ Mr. Swingler
Is the Home Secretary really trying to convey the impression 1476 that there is some effective means of protecting the civil population against the kind of threat for which the Fylingdales station is being established? Would it not be better for him to be as honest as the former Minister of Defence and admit that there is no means of protecting the civil population of Britain against the kind of threat for which Fylingdales is being established as a warning station?

§ Mr. Butler
Anybody with intelligence must realise that the age in which we live is a fearful and a frightful one, and that these weapons are equally fearful and frightful. They would be equally pessimistic if they thought that the whole population, or at any rate the majority of it, would necessarily suffer from these attacks. We must work on the principle that there will be survivors if such attacks take place. It is because we realise that there must be hope that we continue with our sound and patient plans on civil defence.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
Is not the real truth that the Fylingdales warning system is of value to the United States in giving that country some time to get its aeroplanes off the ground, of possibly some very remote value to us to do the same, but of no conceivable value for civil defence?

§ Mr. Butler
Things are, as is usual with the right hon. Gentleman, not so easy as he at first imagined they would be. I hope, however, that we shall all survive in the same way as he has recently survived. I would add only that there is a strategic value in Fylingdales for our own defence. For our own civil defence there is only a modified value owing to the length of time, but what is important for civil defence is to take advantage of the strategic period before a warning to do what we can to defend our population.