§ 13. Mr. Hector Hughesasked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that many persons unemployed in Aberdeen have migrated, on the recommendation of his Department, to Luton and other places in England where they are unable to get suitable residential accommoda- 906 tion; and what steps his officers take, before making such recommendation, to satisfy themselves that persons so migrating are likely to find suitable residential accommodation in England.
§ Mr. HeathA number of men from Aberden have recently obtained employment in Luton and elsewhere through the services of my Department. At Luton, where there is a shortage of accommodation, the employer concerned undertook to find suitable lodgings, and I understand that most men from Aberdeen are generally satisfied, although there have been a few complaints. Employment exchanges have standing instructions that persons accepted for employment away from home should not be sent forward unless suitable accommodation is available for them, and I am satisfied that these instructions are being fully carried out.
§ Mr. HughesIs it not a fact that the employers concerned have not found adequate accommodation for all the workers who came? Is the Mijiister aware that this lack of Governmental co-ordination negatives the purpose for which legislation relating to the distribution of industry was passed? Is he further aware that the Tory policy expressed last Friday by the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) has made industrialists and workers very angry? Will the Minister repudiate that policy and say that it is not Government policy?
§ Mr. HeathThere has been no lack of Government co-ordination in this matter. The local officer assured himself when the firm carried out the interviews that it would be able to see that accommodation was provided for these men. I have seen various accounts of this matter which have appeared in both the national and local Press. I know that there is a difference of view here, but the regional board for industry has protested at the way in which one or two complaints have been greatly exaggerated.
§ Mr. HughesIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply and replies to similar Questions relating to industry and employment, I give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. and learned Gentleman must relate his notice to a specific question, otherwise we cannot tell from what point the rule runs.
§ Mr. HughesI referred to a specific question, Mr. Speaker, and to the unsatisfactory nature of the answer.
§ Mr. NabarroOn a point of order. The hon. and learned Member made some reference to me in his supplementary question. Could not I be permitted—
§ Mr. SpeakerI had this in mind— that the Minister was not responsible for the pronouncements of the hon. Member.
§ Mr. HughesMay I inform you, Sir, that I gave the hon. Member for Kidder-minister (Mr. Nabarro) notice that I would refer to his speech?
§ Mr. NabarroMay I ask for some clarification? To whom were you referring, Mr. Speaker, a moment ago— to the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) or to myself?
§ Mr. SpeakerI was referring to the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro), because, unless I misheard it, the supplementary question of the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North contained a reference to some pronouncement of the hon. Member. It was in that context that I spoke.
§ 15. Lady Tweedsmuirasked the Minister of Labour whether he will provide hostel accommodation for the large number of Scottish workers now employed in Luton, who are having great difficulty in securing suitable accommodation.
§ Mr. HeathI am aware that there is a shortage of accommodation in Luton. My Department does not at present operate any hostels for transferred work people, and I am not contemplating opening a hostel at Luton.
§ Lady TweedsmuirWill my right hon. Friend reconsider the position? To give one example, there are five Aberdonians in one room, each paying £3 5s. a week for the privilege. Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the mobility of labour is a great test of his policy on employment and that it would be very discouraging if many of these families have to go back to Aberdeen?
§ Mr. HeathI agree that it would be most discouraging if many returned, but it would be a major operation to reopen or to establish hostels for this purpose in parts of the country in which workpeople are badly needed. The industrial hostels were closed in June, 1956, and I think that we should use our resources to try to induce industry to go to areas where there is higher unemployment.
§ Mr. W. R. WilliamsIs there not the usual reason for co-ordination between the right hon. Gentleman and the Chancellor of the Duchy on this issue?
§ Mr. NabarroIs my right hon. Friend aware that on the occasion referred to by the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) I was precisely expressing the policy of Her Majesty's Government?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat does not arise out of this Question.
§ Mr. NabarroOn a point of order. These two Questions relate to precisely the same matter—the immigration of Aberdonians to England. My supplementary question a moment ago referred only to that issue, Sir. Is it out of order?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe whole thing is out of order. The Minister cannot be asked to comment on a pronouncement by some unofficial Member in any circumstances. I hope that there is no need to pursue this matter further.
§ Lady TweedsmuirDoes not my right hon. Friend agree that it will take some time for the Local Employment Bill, when it becomes an Act, to be successful in attracting industry to various areas? In the meantime, does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is far better that workers should emigrate to places where jobs exist? Is there nothing further that my right hon. Friend can do in consultation with local authorities and with the firms concerned to approve accommodation?
§ Mr. HeathI understand that the firm itself is doing its utmost to obtain better accommodation for those who require it. The fact is that it has been successful is a very large number of cases. In one or two cases, there have been grumbles about the lodgings provided, but we all know that difficulties can arise about that matter. I understand that it is also in 909 touch with local authorities. It is unfortunate that the firm has now ceased to recruit apart from the travel to work area.
§ Mr. NabarroJust what I said in the the first place.
§ 17. Mr. Manuelasked the Minister of Labour what is the number of unemployed people who have accepted employment in England offered through employment exchanges in Scotland from February, 1959, to February, 1960.
§ Mr. HeathBetween 1st March, 1959, and 29th February, 1960, 2,328 people were placed in employment in England by Scottish employment exchanges.
§ Mr. ManuelIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have great sympathy with these people who have to leave Scotland to go to England and to be separated from their families for long periods? Is he further aware that this is the best of our skilled labour, and that it leaves those areas of heavy unemployment much less able to recruit industries because they have not the skilled craftsmen left to attract industry? Would it not be better, instead of coming to Scotland and explaining how successful his Department is in depopulating Scotland, for the Minister to take up the cudgels on behalf of Scotland with the President of the Board of Trade, attract some industry into Scotland and retain the labour we have in these areas of heavy unemployment?
§ Mr. HeathThe President of the Board of Trade is doing his utmost to induce industry to go to Scotland, and I am glad to say that his efforts are being successful, as the hon. Member will acknowledge. The number of 2,328 people who left Scotland to go to England is 1.3 per cent. of the total number of placings in my Department, which includes 177,000 in Scotland itself.
§ Mr. ManuelIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Scotland we are losing by emigration 25,000 workers each year and that that is the number which the President of the Board of Trade estimates he will be able to recruit into industry over the next three years? In other words, we are making no headway with the problem, and the right hon. Gentleman is making it worse if he does not take up the cudgels on our behalf.
§ Mr. HeathI have done all I can to support the President of the Board of Trade in inducing industry to go to Scotland, and I hope that the hon. Member and his hon. Friends will do the same.