HC Deb 28 June 1960 vol 625 cc1134-7
29. Mr. Ross

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what he estimates will be the effect on Scottish local authority house building of the latest increase in interest rates.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. John Maclay)

Decisions on the scale of housing programmes depend on many factors and I do not believe that the measures recently announced will deter local authorities from continuing to provide houses for priority needs on at least the present scale.

Mr. Ross

One wonders how incredulous the Secretary of State is. Is he aware that there is already concern in Scotland about the serious decline in local authority building?

Mr. Ellis Smith

And in England.

Mr. Ross

It is frankly admitted that the inevitable result of this financial squeeze will be further to reduce the number of local authority houses built. Indeed, from the statements of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that is the intention of the Government.

Mr. Maclay

The hon. Member is expressing an opinion of his own. His Question asked me to express my opinion, and I have expressed it. I add that it is not yet clear what effect the measures will have on the market rate for local authority borrowing. This is a very important Question, and I repeat what I have said before. If local authorities charge reasonable rents for existing houses and make a fair contribution from the rates, with their existing pool of Exchequer subsidies they should have a substantial margin to enable them to finance their present building programmes, even if they have to borrow at slightly higher interest rates than at present.

Mr. Rankin

Is the right hon. Gentleman telling us that freezing Government fixed expenditure for 1961–62 at the present level, raising the Bank Rate and reducing liquidity in the Scottish banks will have no effect on housing?

Mr. Maclay

The hon. Member touched on a matter at the beginning of his supplementary question which is dealt with in a later Question, and I prefer to wait until then before answering. I have expressed my view which was asked for on the Question I am answering.

Mr. Ross

Is the Secretary of State aware that the one local authority in Scotland which took his advice in relation to the raising of rents was Dumfries County Council, and it gained absolutely nothing thereby? The right hon. Gentleman said that it is too early to say exactly what the result of this will be. Does that mean that if it does not cause a sufficiently speedy decline in the number of houses being built the Chancellor of the Exchequer will still further increase the Bank Rate?

Mr. Maclay

The hon. Gentleman must not make assumptions and deal with hypothetical situations.

30. Mr. Ross

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state the considerations that prompted the issue of the circular changing the conditions under which housing subsidies are to be paid.

Mr. Galbraith

The circular itself made clear my right hon. Friend's approach, but there will no doubt be an opportunity for further explanations in the course of Thursday's debate in the Scottish Grand Committee.

Mr. Ross

Is not this interfering with the rights of local authorities? As the right hon. Gentleman has been proclaiming that we must trust local authorities, is it fair—indeed, is it not even sharp practice—for the Secretary of State for Scotland, without reference to Parliament, to change the conditions for the granting of subsidies in Scotland?

Mr. Galbraith

No, this is not sharp practice, nor is it interfering with the rights of local authorities. The hon. Gentleman ought to know perfectly well that under the 1957 Act my right hon. Friend has a duty to be satisfied of the extent and trend of these needs.

32. Mr. McInnes

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will indicate the extent of the waiting list for houses in Glasgow; and how many houses that authority expects to complete this year.

Mr. Galbraith

There are about 130,000 names on Glasgow's waiting list. I understand that the corporation expects to complete some 3,000 houses this year and that against an estimate for the next five years of a requirement of about 10,400 houses for priority applicants and 20,000 for families displaced by redevelopment there will be available 12,800 new houses plus 10,000 from overspill and 10,000 from relets.

Mr. McInnes

The Minister is aware that Glasgow's annual output of houses has fallen in the last few years from 6,000 to less than 3,000, due to the fact that there are no more sites in the city on which to build. Apart from exporting six or seven hundred families to reception areas in new towns, can the hon. Gentleman give us any indication of the Government's intention to solve this problem within the next forty years?

Mr. Galbraith

Yes, certainly—to continue with exporting population to new towns and to continue our overspill arrangements. The hon. Gentleman is expecting results too soon.

Mr. Rankin

We have been waiting half a lifetime.

Mr. Galbraith

The city may have been waiting half a lifetime, but we have at the moment three new towns in operation, none of which is yet finished. I think it is far better to continue with this rather than, as the hon. Gentleman has suggested many times, to start a fourth town at this moment.