§ 5. Mr. Rankinasked the Minister of Defence whether it is still his policy to terminate conscription by 1962.
§ Mr. WatkinsonYes, Sir.
§ Mr. RankinCan the right hon. Gentleman say at which target he is aiming—165,000 or 182,000? Even supposing he achieves either figure, which does not look likely because of the fall in recruiting, will he still maintain forces in Malaya, Kenya, Cyprus and all the other places, plus the necessary reserve in this country? How will he approach the problem if conscription should fail?
§ Mr. WatkinsonI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking this question because it enables me to say that, as clearly stated in the 1957 White Paper, the target which the Government then set for Army recruitment was 165,000. Equally, it was said that if additional recruits could be obtained, they could build up to the other figure-182,000. present recruiting trends—they are not as good for the Army as I should like, although they are satisfactory for the two other Services—still show that the figure of 165,000, which is the Government's target figure, is clearly within reach. As to the question about how the Army should be disposed about the world, we may have different views on that.
§ Mr. PagetWhen the figure of 165,000 was originally mentioned, it was suggested that this was the figure we expected to get, not the one which we needed. When the right hon. Gentleman gives an emphatic answer "Yes", does that mean that, whether it is 180,000 or 165,000 or any other figure, regardless of any fresh requirements, we shall make do with what we get?
§ Mr. WatkinsonIt means that in the Defence White Paper it was clearly stated that the target required by the Army to meet our commitments was 165,000. What I have just said is that Present recruiting trends still give us that figure at the due date.
§ 29. Mr. Wiggasked the Minister of Defence whether the condition laid down in paragraph 48 of the 1957 Defence White Paper, Command Paper No. 124, that if voluntary recruiting fails to produce the numbers required, the country will have to face the need for some form of compulsory service to bridge the gap, still remains the policy of Her Majesty's Government; and whether he will make a statement.
§ Mr. WatkinsonYes, Sir. We have, however, no plans for the continuance of the call-up after this year.
§ Mr. WatkinsonIt was, "Yes, Sir,"
§ Mr. WiggThe undertaking still stands. Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that in an earlier answer today he said he expected to get his targets? Will he give an assurance to the House and to the nation that he expects to get those figures and that he pledges his reputation on getting the numbers for the Army and for the Air Force?
§ Mr. WatkinsonI think that the reputations of all Ministers stand on their doing what they say they will do. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Belper (Mr. G. Brown) only gives me a chance again to wish him the best of success with his new defence policy and to hope that he will feel much better when he has got it out of his system. The answer to the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg) is that I am satisfied that on the present recruiting figures we shall get the 165,000.
§ Mr. V. YatesWill the Minister bear in mind that, in resisting any attempt to continue compulsory military service beyond the agreed date, he will have the support of millions of people who resent and have for a number of years resented compulsory military service?
§ Mr. G. BrownMay I, in the spirit of helpful co-operation, thank the Minister for his advance publicity and ask him whether I heard him correctly? Did he say that on present figures, that is, including the latest we had in April, he is satisfied that the Army will get 165,000 men by the time national conscription is completely ended?
§ Mr. WatkinsonI said, on present trends.