HC Deb 21 June 1960 vol 625 cc365-73

In subsection (1) of section two hundred and twelve of the Income Tax Act, 1952, (which relates to relief for children), after the words "if over the age of sixteen years at the commencement of that year, is receiving full-time instruction at any university, college, school or other educational establishment", there shall be inserted the words "or who, being over the age of sixteen years, but has not attained the age of twenty-one years at the commencement of that year is incapacitated by illness, infirmity or disablement from undergoing full-time instruction at any school or other educational establishment or from following any gainful occupation".—[Mr. Houghton.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. Houghton

I beg to move, That the Clause be read a Second time.

Here, again, we demonstrate our persistence in these matters, because this proposal was previously debated in 1954, 1956, 1957, 1958 and 1959. We hope that the Financial Secretary to the Treasury will be able to concede the proposal this time.

It is proposed to give a parent the same tax relief in respect of an incapacitated child as is given in respect of a child over the age of sixteen undergoing full-time education. Once again, the proposal is based on a recommendation of the Royal Commission on the Taxation of Profits and Income, a proposal made in paragraph 193 of the Commission's Second Report.

When the Royal Commission studied this matter, which it said related to a special situation, the position was that when an incapacitated child reached the age of sixteen, child allowance to the parent was withdrawn and in certain circumstances the parent then fell back on the dependent relative relief in respect of that child. At that time, the drop in the amount of relief to the parent when the child reached the age of sixteen was the tax on £25—the drop was from £85 child allowance to £60 dependent relative allowance.

However, the drop now is very much greater, because the child allowance between the ages of twelve and sixteen has been substantially increased. It was £85, but it is now £125, so that there is a drop from £125 to £75, which is the new level of dependent relative allowance proposed in the Bill. The child relief for a boy or girl undergoing extended education beyond the age of sixteen is now £150, and it is that relief which we wish to be given in respect of the incapacitated child between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one.

The argument which has been used in the past against this proposal is that in the case of incapacity of this kind the child can obtain National Assistance, subject to the income of the child but irrespective of the income of the parents. It is also said that National Assistance grants are not taxable and that in that sense the social services are taking care of the incapacitated beyond the age of sixteen.

I pointed out in our earlier debate that educational grants for children undergoing extended education beyond the age of sixteen are not taxable, so that it is irrelevant in this connection whether the child receives National Assistance which is not taxable.

It could be argued and has been argued in the past that if this proposal is accepted, there will still be a drop in the relief granted to the parent when the child reaches the age of twenty-one. However, at least it can be said of this proposal that the parent would have the benefit of the higher tax relief during the time the child was between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one. There would be a drop at the age of twenty-one, but there are compensating factors in the case of an incapacitated child reaching the age of twenty-one. The first is that the child would then be entitled to a higher National Assistance allowance than at a younger age, and the second point is that probably between the ages of 16 and 21 some efforts to train the child for some useful activity or occupation in life would prove moderately successful.

Therefore, we think that the parent of an incapacitated child between the ages of 16 and 21 should have the benefit of the same tax relief as the parent of a child between the same ages undergoing full-time education.

Another suggestion that has been made is that no parent in these circumstances need hesitate in allowing the child to apply for National Assistance in its own right. We would suggest that the rôle of the National Assistance Board in these cases should be approached with some caution and that many parents would prefer to receive tax relief rather than that their child should receive National Assistance.

If the Chancellor were to say that he is prepared to give this relief to the parent on condition that National Assistance is not applied for while the higher tax relief was current that would be a matter for consideration. Some parents might prefer, and, indeed, it might be to their advantage, to have tax relief rather than the grant from the National Assistance Board.

There is one final point which is that when the child reaches the age of 21 the parent can make more adequate provision for it if he is in a position to do so and is willing to do so by way of a covenant which, as the Committee knows, would not apply to a child under the age of 21. Any disposition of the parent's income in favour of a minor is chargeable on the parent as part of his income, but at age 21 a covenant could be made in favour of an incapacitated son or daughter which would give the parent some tax relief on account of the undertaking to pay an annual income to the child.

In these circumstances, I hope that the wisdom of the Royal Commission plus the arguments that I have put before the Committee will lead the Financial Secretary to accept the new Clause. Here, again, the question of cost would be negligible. It is a question of whether the Committee believes that tax relief in these circumstances should be given if necessary in addition to social service payments and in extreme cases, perhaps, in substitution for them.

Dr. King

I wish briefly to support the new Clause which my hon. Friend the Member for Sowerby (Mr. Houghton) has so ably moved. One of the saddest and yet most inspiring experiences that anyone can have is to meet the parents of an incapacitated child. It seems almost as if nature compensates for its ungenerosity to the defective child by giving it parents who are willing to make sacrifices beyond those made by ordinary parents. I would hope that the Treasury is going to recognise some of that magnificent parenthood by the way it responds to the new Clause.

We are living at a time when we are doing far more for defective children of every category than ever before in the history of the country. Parents of spastic children, of epileptic children and all the rest come together. Special schools are expanding in every kind of way, but there still remain a number of children who will never go to school at all and who will be a burden on their parents right through their lives. There will be children for whom no special schools are available. There will be children who after they have reached the age of 16 will have to return home from special schools.

What we are asking for in the new Clause is that just as we recognise the fact that the parent who is fortunate enough to have a very bright child which goes on to the university or other institutes of further education after the age of 16 has expenses to meet and give that parent a tax concession because we recognise that a bright child, even if it receives a university grant, is still an expense to the parent, so the parent of a totally incapacitated child should receive a tax concession to help him meet expenses comparable with those borne by the parent of a child who goes on to university.

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will recognise this, first because this question has been put to him, and secondly because it gives him an opportunity of honouring the devotion and the care which the parents of such children lavish on them. I hope that he will accept this new Clause.

10.45 p.m.

Sir E. Boyle

I do not quarrel with what the hon. Gentleman has just said about the special schools, which were one of my special responsibilities when I was at the Ministry of Education, or with what he said about the parents of incapacitated children. None the less, there are two reasons, which I shall explain briefly, as time is getting on, why I cannot advise the Committee to accept the Clause, and why I believe, as was stated in the last discussion, that provision for incapacity is more suitably dealt with directly under the social services than by way of tax reliefs.

The first consideration has been put in past years, but I put it to the Committee again. Like any other child in the country, the incapacitated child below the age of sixteen is the responsibility of its parents who, of course, qualify for the child allowance in the ordinary way. Once the child reaches the age of sixteen the State steps in, and when the child cannot work the social services provide maintenance grants through the National Assistance Board, as the hon. Member for Sowerby (Mr. Houghton) said, quite irrespective of the means of its parents, and those grants are given in line with changes in the cost of living.

Through them, the incapacitated child who has no income from capital of its own, like the vast majority in Britain, and no basic income in its own right, receives the ordinary scale of grants in force at present for an incapacitated person with no capital, or income resources of his own. The scale is as follows: At the age of sixteen, it is thirty shillings a week; at eighteen it is thirty-six shillings a week, plus an allowance for its share of the family rent up to a maximum of fifteen shillings; at the age of twenty-one it is forty-six shillings a week, the rate for an incapacitated adult. These are the full grants payable in ordinary circumstances.

Dr. King

That is far less than is allowed in the grants to a student going to university, and still the parent of such a student gets a tax concession for his children.

Sir E. Boyle

Yes. I am pointing out that it seems to me reasonable that grants at sixteen to an incapacitated child—and after all it is only a fairly small proportion of the population, though we hope it will grow, that goes to university—should rightly be the direct responsibility of the State, through the social services.

It seems rather hard to justify giving an allowance of £150 for an incapacitated child between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one, while keeping the allowance for all other dependent relatives at the level of £75. If a child allow ance were to be given at a level of £150 for an incapacitated child under the age of twenty-one, I am sure that there would be a claim that it should continue after that age, because many parents, particularly those whose incomes are derived from earnings at work, would not wish to enter into covenants to pay the child annuity for the necessary period of seven years.

If one type of dependent relative or incapacitated child between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one was given an allowance of £150, I am sure that there would be a demand that a bigger allowance should be given for dependent relatives, whatever the degree of relationship. The case of the incapacitated child cannot really be distinguished from the rest. For instance, the cost of looking after an adult relative suffering from a serious malady, who cannot do anything for himself or herself, can be as heavy as or heavier than the cost of looking after a wholly incapacitated child between the age of 16 and 21.

In discussing an earlier Clause, I was careful to say that I did not base my argument primarily or to any great degree on the question of cost. I am bound to say that if this Clause were accepted there would certainly be pretty rapid pressure for an increase in the dependent relative allowance, which would cost a considerable amount.

Therefore, on consideration of the possible consequentials and for the reasons often explained in the past by former Treasury Ministers, I regret that I must ask the Committee to reject this Clause.

Mr. Houghton

I can put the hon. Gentleman's fears at rest by saying categorically that we should not regard a concession on this new Clause as grounds for claiming an improvement in the dependent relative allowance. That destroys the last vestiges of the case against this Clause. Therefore, I ask my hon. Friends to support me in the Division Lobby.

Question put, That the Clause be read a Second time:—

The Committee divided: Ayes 143, Noes 205.

Division No. 110.] AYES [10.25 p.m.
Abse, Leo Hale, Leslie (Oldham, w.) Pavitt, Laurence
Ainsley, William Hall, Rt. Hon. Glenvil (Colne Valley) Pentland, Norman
Allaun, Frank (Saltford, E.) Hamilton, William (West Fife) Popplewell, Ernest
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) Hannan, William Prentice, R. E.
Awbery, Stan Hart, Mrs. Judith Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Bacon, Miss Alice Hayman, F. H. Probert, Arthur
Baxter William (Stirlingshire, W.) Herbison, Miss Margaret Pursey, Cmdr. Harry
Beaney, Alan Hilton, A. V. Randall, Harry
Benn, Hn. A. Wedgwood (Brist'l, S.E.) Holman, Percy Rankin, John
Benson, Sir George Holt, Arthur Redhead, E. C.
Blackburn, F. Houghton, Douglas Reid, William
Blyton, William Hoy, James H. Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Bowden, Herbert W. (Leics, S.W.) Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Bowles, Frank Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Rogers, G. H. R. (Kensington, N.)
Boyden, James Hunter, A. E. Ross, William
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Hynd, H. (Accrington) Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Hynd, John (Attercliffe) Skeffington, Arthur
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.)
Callaghan, James Irving, Sydney (Dartford) Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield)
Castle, Mrs. Barbara Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas Small, William
Chapman, Donald Jeger, George Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Chetwynd, George Jones, Dan (Burnley) Sorensen, R. W.
Cliffe, Michael Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Spriggs, Leslie
Cronin John Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Stewart, Michael (Fulham)
Crossman, R. H. S. Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Stonehouse, John
Cullen, Mrs. Alice King, Dr. Horace Stones, William
Darling, George Lawson, George Strachey, Rt. Hon. John
Davies, Rt. Hn. Clement (Montgomery) Lee, Frederick (Newton) Stross, Dr. Barnett (Stoke-on-Trent, C.)
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Lewis, Arthur (West Ham. N.) Summerskill, Dr. Rt. Hon. Edith
Deer, George Logan, David Swain, Thomas
Delargy, Hugh Loughlin, Charles Swingler, Stephen
Dempsey, James Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Sylvester, George
Diamond, John McCann, John Symonds, J. B.
Dodds, Norman MacColl, James Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John McInnes, James Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Ede, Rt. Hon. Chuter McKay, John (Wallsend) Thornton, Ernest
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Mackie, John Thorpe, Jeremy
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Timmons, John
Edwards, Walter (Stepney) Manuel, A. C. Wade, Donald
Evans, Albert Mapp, Charles Ward, Dame Irene (Tynemouth)
Fernyhough, E. Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. Watkins, Tudor
Fitch, Alan Marsh, Richard Weitzman, David
Fletcher, Eric Mason, Roy Wells, William (Walsall, N.)
Foot, Dingle Mendelson, J. J. Wheeldon, W. E.
Forman, J. C. Millan, Bruce Whitlock, William
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Mitchison, G. R. Williams, D. J. (Neath)
George, Lady Megan Lloyd Monslow, Walter Williams, Rev. LI. (Abertillery)
Ginsburg, David Morris, John Williams, W. R. (Openshaw)
Gooch, E. G. Noel-Baker Francis (Swindon) Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.)
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Oram, A. E. Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Gourlay, Harry Owen, Will Winterbottom, R. E.
Greenwood, Anthony Padley, W. E. Woof, Robert
Grey, Charles Paget, R. T. Yates, Victor (Ladywood)
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.)
Grimond, J. Pargiter, G. A. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Gunter, Ray Mr. Mahon and Mr. Howell.
Agnew, Sir Peter Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. H. Critchley, Julian
Aitken, W. T. Brooman-White, R. Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E.
Allason, James Browne, Percy (Torrington) Cunningham, Knox
Amory, Rt. Hn. D. Heathcoat (Tiv'tn) Bullard, Denys Curran, Charles
Ashton, Sir Hubert Bullus, Wing Commander Eric Currie, G. B. H.
Balniel, Lord Butcher, Sir Herbert Dance, James
Barber, Anthony Campbell, Sir David (Belfast, S.) d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry
Barter, John Carr, Compton (Barons Court) Deedes, W. F.
Batsford, Brian Chichester-Clark, R. de Ferranti, Basil
Baxter, Sir Beverley (Southgate) Clark, Henry (Antrim, N.) Digby, Simon Wingfield
Bell, Ronald (S. Bucks.) Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. M.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos & Fhm) Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmth, W.) Doughty, Charles
Bevins, Rt. Hon. Reginald (Toxteth) Collard, Richard Drayson, G. B.
Bidgood, John C. Cooke, Robert du Cann, Edward
Biggs-Davison, John Cooper, A. E. Duncan, Sir James
Bingham, R. M. Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. Elliott, R. W.
Bishop, F. P. Cordle, John Emery, Peter
Black, Sir Cyril Corfield, F. V. Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn
Bossom, Clive Costain, A. P. Errington, Sir Eric
Box, Donald Coulson, J. M. Farey-Jones, F. W.
Boyle, Sir Edward Courtney, Cdr. Anthony Farr, John
Brewis, John Craddock, Sir George Beresford Fell, Anthony
Fisher, Nigel Kimball, Marcus Rees-Davies, W. R.
Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Kirk, Peter Renton, David
Forrest, George Leavey, J. A. Ridley, Hon. Nicholas
Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) Legge-Bourke, Maj. Sir Harry Ridsdale, Julian
Freeth, Denzil Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Roberts, Sir Peter (Heeley)
Gammans, Lady Lilley, F. J. P. Robinson, Sir Roland (Blackpool, S.)
Gardner, Edward Linstead, Sir Hugh Roots, William
George, J. C. (Pollok) Litchfield, Capt. John Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard
Gibson-Watt, David Longden, Gilbert Royle, Anthony (Richmond, Surrey)
Glover, Sir Douglas Loveys, Walter H. Scott-Hopkins, James
Glyn, Dr. Alan (Clapham) Low, Rt. Hon. Sir Toby Sharples, Richard
Godber, J. B. Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Shaw, M.
Gower, Raymond Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Simon, Sir Jocelyn
Grant, Rt. Hon. William (Woodside) MacArthur, Ian Skeet, T. H. H.
Grant-Ferris, Wg Cdr. R. (Nantwich) McLaren, Martin Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'd & Chiswick)
Green, Alan McLaughlin, Mrs. Patricia Spearman, Sir Alexander
Gresham Cooke, R. MacLeod, John (Ross & Cromarty) Speir, Rupert
Grosvenor, Lt.-Col. R. G. McMaster, Stanley R. Stevens, Geoffrey
Hail, John (Wycombe) Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries) Steward, Harold (Stockport, S.)
Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) Maddan, Martin Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm
Harris, Reader (Heston) Maginnis, John E. Storey, Sir Samuel
Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) Maitland, Cdr. Sir John Studholme, Sir Henry
Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) Markham, Major Sir Frank Summers, Sir Spencer (Aylesbury)
Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) Mathew, Robert (Honiton) Summer, Donald (Orpington)
Harvie Anderson, Miss Mathew, Gordon (Meriden) Talbot, John E.
Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel Mawby, Ray Teeling, William
Heath, Rt. Hon. Edward Maydon, Lt,-Cmdr. S. L. C. Temple, John M.
Henderson, John (Cathcart) Montgomery, Fergus Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Hendry, Forbes Morgan, William Thomas, Peter (Conway)
Hicks Beach, Maj. W. Nabarro, Gerald Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Hiley, Joseph Neave, Airey Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin
Hill, Mrs. Eveline (Wythenshawe) Nicholson, Sir Godfrey Tiley, Arthur (Bradford, W.)
Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk) Noble, Michael Turner, Colin
Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Nugent, Sir Richard Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Hirst, Geoffrey Orr-Ewing, C. Ian Tweedsmuir, Lady
Hocking, Philip N. Osborne, John (Hallam) van Straubenzee, W. R.
Holland, Philip Osborne, Cyril (Louth) Vane, W. M. F.
Hollingworth, John Page, A. J. (Harrow, West) Vaughan-Morgan, Sir John
Hopkins, Alan Page, Graham Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Hornby, R. P. Pannell, Norman (Kirkdale) Wakefield, Sir Wavell (St. M'lebone)
Howard, Gerald (Cambridgeshire) Partridge, E. Wall, Patrick
Howard, Hon. G. R. (St. Ives) Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) Watts, James
Howard, John (Southampton, Test) Peel, John Webster, David
Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral John Percival, Ian Wells, John (Maidstone)
Hughes-Young, Michael Peyton, John Whitelaw, William
Hurd, Sir Anthony Pickthorn, Sir Kenneth Williams, Dudley (Exeter)
Hutchison, Michael Clark Pike, Miss Mervyn Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Iremonger, T. L. Pilkington, Capt. Richard Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Pitman, I. J. Wise, A. R.
Jackson, John Pott, Percivall Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
James, David Powell, J. Enoch Woodhouse, C. M.
Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) Prior, J. M. L. Woodnutt, Mark
Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) Proudfoot, Wilfred Woollam, John
Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Ramsden, James Worsley, Marcus
Joseph, Sir Keith Rawlinson, Peter
Kerby, Capt. Henry Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Kerr, Sir Hamilton Rees, Hugh Mr. Bryan and Mr. Finlay.
Division No. 111.] AYES [10.52 p.m.
Abse, Leo Hannan, William Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Ainsley, William Hart, Mrs. Judith Probert, Arthur
Allaun, Frank (Salford E.) Hayman, F. H. Randall, Harry
Awbery, Stan Herblson, Miss Margaret Rankin, John
Bacon, Miss Alice Holman, Percy Redhead, E. C.
Baxter, William (Stirlingshire, W.) Holt, Arthur Reid, William
Beaney, Alan Hough ton, Douglas Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Benn, Hn. A. Wedgwood (Brist'l. S. E.) Hoy, James H. Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Benson, Sir George Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Rogers, G. H. R. (Kensington, N.)
Blackburn, F. Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Ross, William
Blyton, William Hunter, A. E. Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Bowden, Herbert W. (Leics, S.W.) Hynd, H. (Accrington) Skeffington, Arthur
Boyden, James Hynd, John (Attercliffe) Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.)
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Jeger, George Small, William
Castle, Mrs. Barbara Jones, Dan (Burnley) Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Cliffe, Michael Jones, Jack (Rotherham) Sorensen, R. W.
Craddock, George (Bradford, 8.) Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Cronin John Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Spriggs, Leslie
Cullen, Mrs. Alice King, Dr. Horace Stonehouse, John
Davies, Rt. Hn. Clement (Montgomery) Lawson, George Stones, William
Davies, Ifor (Cower) Lewis, Arthur (West Ham, N.) Stross, Dr. Barnett (Stoke-on-Trent, C.)
Deer, George Logan, David Summerskill, Dr. Rt. Hon. Edith
Deer, George Delargy, Hugh Loughiln, Charles Swain, Thomas
Dempsey, James Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Swingler, Stephen
Diamond, John McCann, John Symonds, J. B.
Dodds, Norman MacColl, James Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John McInnes, James Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Ede, Rt. Hon. Chuter McKay, John (Wallsend) Thornton, Ernest
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Mackie, John Thorpe, Jeremy
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Mahon, Simon Timmons, John
Evans, Albert Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Wade, Donald
Fernyhough, E. Manuel, A. C. Ward, Dame Irene (Tynemouth)
Fitch, Alan Mapp, Charles Watkins, Tudor
Fletcher, Eric Marsh, Richard Weitzman, David
Foot, Dingle Mendelson, J. J. Wells, William (Walsall, N.)
Forman, J. C. Millan, Bruce Wheeldon, W. E.
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Mitchison, G. R. Whitlock, William
George, Lady Megan Lloyd Monslow, Walter Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Ginsburg, David Morris, John Williams, W. R. (Openshaw)
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Noel-Baker, Francis (Swindon) Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.)
Gourlay, Harry Oram, A. E. Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Greenwood, Anthony Paget, R. T. Winterbottom, R. E.
Grey, Charles Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.) Woof, Robert
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) Pargiter, C. A. Yates, Victor (Ladywood)
Grimond, J. Pavitt, Laurence
Gunter, Ray Pentland, Norman TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Hall, Rt. Hon. Glenvil (Coine Valley) Popplewell, Ernest Mr. Charles Howell and
Hamilton, William (West Fife) Prentice, R. E. Mr. Sydney Irving.
Agnew, Sir Peter Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. Freeth, Denzil
Aitken, W. T. Cordle, John Gammans, Lady
Allason, James Corfield, F. V. Gardner, Edward
Amory, Rt. Hn. D. Heathcoat (Tiv'tn) Coulson, J. M. George, J. C. (Pollok)
Ashton, Sir Hubert Courtney, Cdr. Anthony Gibson-Watt, David
Balniel, Lord Craddock, Sir Beresford Glover, Sir Douglas
Barber, Anthony Critchley, Julian Glyn, Dr. Alan (Clapham)
Barter, John Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Godber, J. B.
Batsford, Brian Curran, Charles Gower, Raymond
Baxter, Sir Beverley (Southgate) Currie, G. B. H. Grant, Rt. Hon. William (Woodside)
Bidgood, John C. Dance, James Grant-Ferris, Wg Cdr. R. (Nantwich)
Biggs-Davison, John d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Green, Alan
Bingham, R. M. Deedes, W. F. Gresham Cooke, R.
Bishop, F. P. de Ferranti, Basil Grosvenor, Lt.-Col. R. G.
Bossom, Clive Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. M. Hall, John (Wycombe)
Box, Donald Doughty, Charles Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough)
Boyle, Sir Edward Drayson, G. B. Harris, Reader (Heston)
Brewis, John du Cann, Edward Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye)
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. H. Duncan, Sir James Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd)
Brooman-White, R. Elliott, R. W. Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.)
Browne, Percy (Torrington) Emery, Peter Harvie Anderson, Miss
Bullard, Denys Errington, Sir Eric Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel
Bullus, Wing Commander Eric Farey-Jones. F. W. Heath, Rt. Hon. Edward
Butcher, Sir Herbert Farr, John Hendry, Forbes
Campbell, Sir David (Belfast, S.) Fell, Anthony Hicks Beach, Maj. W.
Carr, Compton (Barons Court) Finlay, Graeme Hiley, Joseph
Clark, Henry (Antrim, N.) Fisher, Nigel Hill, Mrs. Eveline (Wythenshawe)
Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk)
Collard, Richard Forrest, George Hinchingbrooke, Viscount
Cooke, Robert Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) Hirst, Geoffrey
Hocking, Philip N. Nabarro, Gerald Speir, Rupert
Holland, Philip Neave, Airey Stevens, Geoffrey
Hollingworth, John Nicholson, Sir Godfrey Steward, Harold (Stockport, S.)
Hornby, R P. Noble, Michael Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm
Howard, John (Southampton, Test) Osborn, John (Hallam) Storey, Sir Samuel
Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral John Osborne, Cyril (Louth) Studholme, Sir Henry
Hughes-Young, Michael Page, A. J. (Harrow, West) Summers, Sir Spencer (Aylesbury)
Hutchison, Michael Clark Page, Graham Sumner, Donald (Orpington)
Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Panned, Norman (Kirkdale) Talbot, John E.
Jackson, John Partridge, E. Temple, John M.
James, David Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) Peel, John Thomas, Peter (Conway)
Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Percival, Ian Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Joseph, Sir Keith Peyton, John Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin
Kerby, Capt. Henry Pickthorn, Sir Kenneth Tiley, Arthur (Bradford, W.)
Kerr, Sir Hamilton Pike, Miss Mervyn Turner, Colin
Kimball, Marcus Pilkington, Capt. Richard Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Kirk, Peter Pitman, I. J. Tweedsmuir, Lady
Leavey, J. A. Pott, Percivall van Straubenzee, W. R.
Legge-Bourke, Maj. Sir Harry Powell, J. Enoch Vane, W. M. F.
Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Prior, J. M. L. Vaughan-Morgan, Sir John
Lilley, F. J. P. Proudfoot, Wilfred Vickers, Miss Joan
Litchfield, Capt. John Rawlinson, Peter Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Longden, Gilbert Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin Wall, Patrick
Loveys, Walter H. Rees, Hugh Watts, James
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Rees-Davies, W. R. Webster, David
Mac Arthur, Ian Renton, David Wells, John (Maidstone)
McLaren, Martin Ridley, Hon. Nicholas Whitelaw, William
McLaughlin, Mrs. Patricia Ridsdale, Julian Williams, Dudley (Exeter)
MacLeod, John (Ross & Cromarty) Robinson, sir Roland (Blackpool, S.) Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
McMaster, Stanley R. Roots, William Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries) Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard Wise, A. R.
Maddan, Martin Royle, Anthony (Richmond, Surrey) Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Maginnis, John E. Scott-Hopkins, James Woodhouse, C. M.
Markham, Major Sir Frank Sharples, Richard Woodnutt, Mark
Matthews, Gordon (Meriden) Shaw, M. Woollam, John
Mawby, Ray Skeet, T. H. H. Worsley, Marcus
Montgomery, Fergus Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'rd & Chiswick)
Morgan, William Spearman, Sir Alexander TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mr. Bryan and Mr. Chichester-Clark.