HC Deb 18 July 1960 vol 627 cc19-23
27. Mr. Jeger

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on his talks with the Spanish Foreign Secretary.

28. Mr. Mendelson

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will report to the House on the discussions he has just concluded with the Foreign Minister of Spain.

30. Mr. Stonehouse

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on his talks with the Foreign Minister of Spain.

31. Mr. Healey

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on his recent official conversations with the Foreign Minister of Spain.

42. Mr. Fletcher

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if, during his forthcoming conversations with the Spanish Foreign Minister, he will discuss the possibility of the accession of Spain to the Convention on Human Rights, of which this country is a signatory.

The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd)

As forecast in my reply to the hon. Member for Wednesbury on 29th June, I had a general exchange of views with Senor Castiella on the international situation and also discussed with him certain matters of common concern to our two countries. We signed an Anglo-Spanish Cultural Convention. As I have already told the House, this was not an occasion for formal negotiations. I am certain, however, that the visit will have helped to improve relations between our two countries.

Mr. Jeger

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recall that on 29th June he informed me that he cannot intervene in what are internal Spanish matters, yet he was reported in the meantime as having discussed with the Spanish Foreign Minister matters of religious freedom, on which we all agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman's views? Did he not take the opportunity of discussing personal and political freedom, and also of asking for an amnesty for those people condemned without trial as political prisoners who are now in gaol in Spain?

Mr. Lloyd

I think it is important, if we are to have any influence in these matters, not to raise internal affairs. So far as the question of Protestants is concerned, I did raise the question of Protestants in Spain, with particular reference to British-owned chapels and the British and Foreign Bible Society.

Mr. Mendelson

While the Foreign Secretary was speaking about improving relations, is he aware that at a meeting in one of the Committee Rooms upstairs the Spanish Foreign Secretary said that he was proud of his record of having fought on the Axis side at a time when this country was fighting for its life, and that he used the old propaganda method, long ago exposed by the right hon. Member for Woodford (Sir W. Churchill), of alleging that he was fighting Communism? Is he prepared to tell the House that he wants to build a new Europe with Fascists like the Spanish Foreign Secretary?

Mr. Lloyd

As I have said before, these incidents happened a very long time ago, and we have sought in many other respects to try to re-form our relations with other countries which were enemy countries at that time. We have to take facts as they are now and try to improve relations.

Mr. Healey

If we are to take facts as they are now, may I ask the Foreign Secretary whether he is aware of the fact that 139 Basque priests recently wrote to their bishops protesting against the actions of the Franco régime as being inconsistent with human dignity? Will he say whether, if he accepts Senor Castiella's invitation to visit Spain himself, he will seek an opportunity to meet representatives of these priests? Will he say why he has chosen this, of all moments, to strengthen the international standing of the Franco régime when it is under almost universal attack by its own people?

Mr. Lloyd

As I said when the question of the invitation arose, it is a very important thing not to make the internal policies of a particular Government the criterion whether one tries to improve relations or not. I think I would find these protests a little more understandable if there were corresponding protests about what is happening in other countries of the world. I say that I am absolutely convinced that it is the sincere desire of Senor Castiella to improve relations between our two countries.

Mr. Stonehouse

Is the Foreign Secretary aware that the whole House will be relieved that no question was raised of Spain's admission to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation? [HON. MEMBERS: "Speak for yourself."] Is he further aware that the whole British people regard with absolute repugnance the idea of Britain entering into defence arrangements with a régime that gave active support to Hitler? Will he use the opportunity of denying that there is any possibility of such joint defence arrangements being entered into?

Mr. P. Williams

On a point of order. On what grounds does the hon. Member claim to speak for the whole British people?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member bears the responsibility for what he claims to speak about. I forget where we were, but I think the Minister has an answer to give.

Mr. Lloyd

It was made quite clear by the Spanish Foreign Minister himself when he came here that the question of Spanish membership of N.A.T.O. was not going to be raised. It was not raised. I think, perhaps speaking for the British people with a greater sense of responsibility, that I would venture to disagree with what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Mr. Fletcher

Does not the Foreign Secretary think he was very remiss, in the interests of candour, in not having made known to the Spanish Foreign Minister the very great concern felt in this country about the condition of political prisoners in Burgos, and the general desire that there should be an amnesty for political offenders, after such a very long time?

Mr. Lloyd

I would put seriously to the hon. Member that this question of interfering with the internal affairs of another country, and particularly of a very proud people, is not the way of arriving at the kind of purpose which he has in mind.

Sir J. Duncan

Does my right hon. and learned Friend realise that we on this side of the House welcome the cultural agreement which he has made with the Foreign Minister of Spain as a first step to getting closer relations with that country?

Mr. Lloyd

I am glad that my hon. Friend has mentioned this question of the Cultural Convention, because it helps the British Council, which is operating in Spain. It is, I think, a very good way of putting across our ideas on certain of these matters, and this Convention will strengthen the British position.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that, whatever views may be held about the Spanish Government, surely a great majority of people in Britain would like to have friendly relations with the 30 million proud people of Spain and wish him well in his negotiations to build up that friendship?

Mr. Lloyd

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend has said. I am perfectly certain that I am right in the policy I have pursued in this matter.

Mr. S. Silverman

When the right hon. and learned Gentleman drew a parallel between what he is now doing in Spain and the more friendly relations that we now have with former enemy countries, was he intending to represent to the House that the present régime in Western Germany is comparable with the present régime in Spain?

Mr. Lloyd

What I was saying was that I am trying to deal with the situation as it is at present, and I think that the Spanish Foreign Minister sincerely wishes to secure friendly relations between our two countries, which is in the interests of both countries.