§ 40. Mr. Stonehouseasked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his discussions with the Prime Minister of the Federal Government of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Macmillan)During my visit to Salisbury, I had a valuable exchange of views with the Federal Prime Minister and his Cabinet, covering topics of common concern. These discussions were private.
§ Mr. StonehouseIs not the Prime Minister aware that he deserves to be congratulated on the stand he took when he said to Sir Roy Welensky that there is no chance of Dominion independence for the Federation until the Africans in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland agree to it? May I ask him whether he also told Sir Roy Welensky that we intend to confirm and continue our protection of the Africans in Southern Rhodesia until those Africans ask for that protection to be removed? May I also ask him to confirm that we intend to trim our policies in Rhodesia and Nyasaland to the wind of change?
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to the question of my discussions with Sir Roy Welensky, I have nothing to add to what I have said. I did, however, 1128 make a statement in public at Salisbury, and I stand by what I said then.
§ Mr. GaitskellWith reference to that statement, the Prime Minister pointed out that the people of Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia would have a choice between either entering an independent and free Federation or remaining under British tutelage. May I ask him if that is the only choice which will be available to them, or whether they will also have the right of secession and continuing as an independent country?
§ The Prime MinisterI do not think the right hon. Gentleman meant to misrepresent me in any way, but I would not accept his version of my Salisbury speech in the quite simple way in which he has posed it. I made it after considerable thought and care, and would not like to make glosses upon it in the interchange of question and answer.
§ Mr. GaitskellIf the Prime Minister disagrees with my interpretation, is he prepared to tell me where I was wrong?
§ The Prime MinisterIf necessary, I will send a copy of the speech to the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. GaitskellI have taken the precaution of obtaining a copy for myself beforehand, and I should like to repeat my question. Did not the Prime Minister say that in effect the people of Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia would not be forced into a free and independent Federation, but that they would have the choice between going into that and remaining as they are now under British tutelage? I am asking him whether they have not a third choice, and that is the right to remain as an independent country on their own?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is quite another question from the one I dealt with at Salisbury. The question I dealt with at Salisbury was to try to set out as clearly as I could what was meant by the Preamble to the Act and by other statements made on behalf of the Government. I think that, in doing so, I made it perfectly plain what the situation was with regard to the Federation receiving complete Commonwealth independence.
§ Mr. GrimondDid the Prime Minister notice, while in Africa, that the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia said that 1129 in certain circumstances he might have to secede from the Federation? Is it the view of the Prime Minister that that is a correct interpretation of possibilities under the present Constitution?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is an entirely different question. I do not think it would be wise for me to comment on these statements that were made. We have a very difficult task here during tae next year and I would appeal to the House as a whole that we should try to face them in as little partisan spirit as possible.
§ Mr. CallaghanIs it not the case that, although the Prime Minister is unwilling to comment on what he said, Sir Edgar Whitehead is commenting on what the Prime Minister said, as quoted in the official news-letter put out by the Federation? Is it not important that the Prime Minister should get away from this masterly evasiveness about the future of these Territories, and state clearly whether, if Southern Rhodesia in certain circumstances is able to leave the Federation, the people of Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia, if they so choose, should be free to do the same?
§ The Prime MinisterI am not prepared to answer these hypothetical questions. I think the hon. Gentleman is suffering from some sense of disappointment at the result of my visit.
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. de Freitas.
§ Mr. CallaghanMay I ask—
§ The Prime Ministerrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I would have given the hon. Gentleman in opportunity, but I did not see him in the act of rising until after I had called the next Question.
§ Mr. CallaghanOn a point of Order. May I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that it is our view on this side of the House that the formulation of a correct policy for Africa is much more important than the scoring of party points, and that the Prime Minister ought to know this by now?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is not an observation that the hon. Member can address to me. Mr. de Freitas.
§ 41. Mr. de Freitasasked the Prime Minister what discussions he had in South Africa on the future of Basutoland.
§ The Prime MinisterApart from discussions with the High Commissioner and his officers, I held some talks with the political leaders in Basutoland.
I naturally had certain private discussions with the Prime Minister of the Union about the Protectorates generally.
§ Mr. de FreitasIs the Prime Minister aware that the Union Prime Minister has threatened that, unless the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the natives of Basutoland conforms to the Union's policy towards its own native population, he will deny the right of the immigrants from Basutoland to earn a living in the Union of South Africa? In view of this serious economic threat, may I ask the Prime Minister what he intends to do about it?
§ The Prime MinisterI know of no such statement, and I think it is extremely unlikely that any such course will be taken.
§ Mr. de FreitasIs the Prime Minister aware that reports of such a statement were published in many Sunday newspapers, including the Observer, this weekend?