HC Deb 11 February 1960 vol 617 cc673-6
Mr. Bowles

I beg the pardon of the House for raising the Question of the threatened railway strike. I dare say that there will be certain objection taken to my raising it, but I feel it my duty to what I am about to say.

There has been an assumption, not only through this unfortunate industrial trouble but even at times of crisis during the war, that Parliament should not debate these matters. I remember that during the war the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Woodford (Sir W. Churchill), often tried to prevent back benchers from debating matters appertaining to the conduct of the war, and that it was only through some special knowledge of procedure, and their skill, that some of my right hon. and hon. Friends were able to obtain the debates which they so often wanted.

I do not understand why there is always this great desire to stop the House of Commons discussing matters of such a critical nature as the railway strike which is at present threatened.

Sir S. Summers

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

Mr. Bowles

I am on a point of order.

It seems that the probable underlying assumption is that hon. Members might say something which might aggravate the situation. I have a great deal more confidence in my Parliamentary colleagues on both sides of the House than that this great deliberating Chamber, probably the greatest in the world, would be so irresponsible as that.

Sir S. Summers

rose—

Hon. Members

Order.

Mr. Bowles

The hon Gentleman the Member for Aylesbury (Sir S. Summers) was a Member of the House some years ago. He had a long lapse from membership and perhaps he has not yet caught up with the procedure.

I very strongly regret that the House should run away, as it always does tend to run away, from fundamental discussions on great issues. I have the greatest respect for the House of Commons in these matters. The newspapers are perfectly free to say what they like, aggravating or not. Members of Parliament are able to write letters to the Press which may be aggravating or not.

Mr. Kershaw

On a point of order—

Mr. Bowles

I am on a point of order.

Mr. Kershaw

rose—

Hon. Members

Sit down.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I have enough trouble without listening to two points of order at once. Mr. Bowles.

Mr. Kershaw

But, Mr. Speaker—

Hon. Members

Sit down.

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Kershaw

Is this a Private Notice Question?

Mr. Bowles

It is not a Private Notice Question.

Hon. Members

What is it?

Mr. Bowles

Wait and see. It has not sounded like a Private Notice Question yet.

As I say, Members of Parliament are entitled to write to any newspaper they like if the newspaper will publish what they write. Ministers are able to have private meetings with their supporters in the Committee Rooms, as they did last night according to The Times, and this, more than anything else, makes me feel it my duty to bring this matter to the notice of the House. It is stated in The Times that Members were not optimistic after the meeting. It appears that the Minister of Labour stated that at the moment there seemed little hope of averting a strike, although his department would continue in their efforts. He is reported to have said that no new ideas or suggestions had been produced which offered a chance of a settlement … If the people who are doing all the negotiating, including hon. Members, cannot produce suggestions which seem likely to avert the strike, the House of Commons might if it were to have a debate tonight.

We also know that the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House has been having meetings, and quite rightly, with Ministers—[Interruption.] Is the House of Commons losing its sense of responsibility in this matter? It ought not to do so. The Leader of the House, quite rightly, is now meeting the Ministers who are concerned—[HON. MEMBERS "Get on."] Mr. Speaker, as I think you will appreciate, I have found it better when submitting a Motion under Standing Order No. 9 to put my submissions first rather than to allow the Chair to give its Ruling before my submissions have been made. I shall not speak for much longer.

This is the last day on which the procedure under Standing Order No. 9 can be used, as it seems to me, because it cannot be used tomorrow and the strike may start early on Monday morning. We are the great inquest of the people and I am perfectly certain that Members of Parliament will be unpopular, and be regarded as having abrogated their duty, if they run away from this last opportunity to have a debate on this matter. I believe in the House of Commons and its wisdom. I believe that we, as Members of Parliament, should have more confidence in ourselves.

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment—

Sir K. Pickthorn

Where is the point of order?

Mr. Bowles

This is it.

Mr. Speaker

Order, This is a serious matter, and I am not assisted by hon. Gentlemen shouting at one another across the Chamber.

Mr. Bowles

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 on a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the failure of the Government to take the steps necessary to avert the railway strike which is threatened on Monday next. Nothing could be more definite, more urgent or of greater public importance.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member asks me for leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 on a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the failure of the Government to take the steps necessary to avert the railway strike threatened on Monday next.

I regret that I cannot accede to the hon. Member's application. I do not conceive it to be within the Standing Order.

Mr. Bowles

May I say, Mr. Speaker—this is why I wanted to say what I said earlier—that I think that if you will inquire you will find that the word "failure" makes the Motion definite. I am certain that hon. Members will think it urgent, and surely it is of great public importance.

Mr. Speaker

I do not wish to give my reasons, or to argue about them. The House is under great pressure of time today. I assure the hon. Member that I gave full consideration to every word he said while he was addressing me and that I have had, also, an opportunity to collect a little bit of advice bearing on the point at the same time. Even after having heard what he has just said, I must adhere to my Ruling and ask the House to accept it.

Mr. Shinwell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask whether, when we proceed to the next business, namely, the Adjournment of the House, because the House has adjourned the debate from yesterday, we shall be able to—

Mr. Speaker

The right hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. We are not having the discussion which was current yesterday upon a Motion for the Adjournment of the House, but on a substantive Motion, which was set down by the Opposition.