HC Deb 03 February 1960 vol 616 cc991-3
26 and 27. Mr. Popplewell

asked the Minister of Transport (1) if he will give an assurance that the Government will give all necessary assistance in implementing in full the findings of the Guillebaud Committee of Inquiry into railwaymen's conditions;

(2) in view of the fact that the findings of the Guillebaud Committee of Inquiry into railwaymen's conditions involve the British Transport Commission in additional expenditure, what financial assistance the Government will give to the Commission to help it to meet this additional liability.

Mr. Marples

The Committee of Inquiry into railway pay has not yet reported. It will report to the British Transport Commission and the railway unions and it will be for them to consider the Committee's findings within the established negotiating machinery.

Mr. Popplewell

Is the Minister aware that we know that the Committee has not reported but the Question was framed in this way in order to make it acceptable to the Table? Is he aware that we seek an assurance that when the Guillebaud Committee presents its Report, which will involve the Commission in additional financial expenditure, the right hon. Gentleman will give a guarantee to the Commission that the Government will support this expenditure? He will know that the Government have been responsible for the Commission showing a cumulative loss of £300 million, after paying interest charges up to now. Is he aware that this is a staggering figure for the Commission to find and that the railwaymen want an assurance that the Commission will get Government backing for any additional financial reward which the Guillebaud Committee may give to them?

Mr. Marples

This is not a Government inquiry. There are four parties to it, the three unions concerned and the British Transport Commission. They are paying for it. They have jointly decided on its terms of reference, and it would be wrong for me to anticipate the terms of the report.

Mr. Wade

Is the Minister able to inform the House when the Committee will make its report?

Mr. Marples

It is expected that it will report some time in April.

Sir G. Nicholson

Is my right hon. Friend aware that public opinion is rather shocked by the excessively slow way in which this Committee appears to have worked? As the public interest is so deeply involved, will he try to see that on future occasions matters are conducted a little more expeditiously?

Mr. Marples

It is a complicated task. This is an attempt to bring to an end the vexed question of differentials and, frankly, I think that the less we say about it at the moment the better. I ask the House to bear in mind that it took almost six months to settle the terms of reference of the Committee.

Mr. Nabarro

Would not my right hon. Friend concede that, as there is a very large trading loss forward on the British Transport Commission's accounts, any substantial increase in railwaymen's wages will, directly or indirectly, increase that loss forward? Does not that fact transpose matters and cause railwaymen's wages to become much more largely a House of Commons matter than a matter to be left solely for negotiation between the Transport Commission and the trade unions?

Mr. Marples

My hon. Friend is anticipating the report.

Mr. Mellish

The right hon. Gentleman's hon. Friend may be anticipating the report but he is still making a point which is very important—

Mr. Nabarro

I am absolutely right.

Mr. Mellish

I have never been able to distinguish between the modesty of the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) and that of the Minister; it is quite a job. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the finances of the Commission are in such a parlous condition that the Government must make a statement very soon? After all, whether we try to avoid it or not, it looks as though we are heading for a major strike in about a fortnight, and the finances involved are the concern of the Government.

Mr. Marples

I am well aware of the gravity not only of the short-term situation but of the long-term situation, and I hope that the House will not press me today but will leave the matter till a little later. I can assure the House that it is the long-term as well as the shortterm problem which is causing me concern.