HC Deb 21 December 1960 vol 632 cc1303-5

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper:

75. Mr. G. M. THOMSON

To ask the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement about the progress of the talks on the Southern Rhodesian Constitution.

The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations (Mr. Duncan Sandys)

The Southern Rhodesia Constitutional Conference met on 16th and 17th December and discussed matters of procedure, after which it adjourned. Its meetings will be resumed in January in Southern Rhodesia, and I am proposing myself to go there for this purpose towards the end of the month.

In the interval, preparatory discussions between the Southern Rhodesian delegates will be held under the chairmanship of Sir Edgar Whitehead, with the British High Commissioner attending as an observer. This should enable more rapid progress to be made when the full conference resumes under my chairmanship.

Mr. Thomson

May I thank the Minister for coming to the House to answer this Question this morning and offer him congratulations from this side of the House on succeeding for the second time in a few weeks in persuading the Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia to include Mr. Joshua Nkomo, the representative of the National Democratic Party, in these discussions? May I also ask him whether he is aware that on this side of the House we view with some anxiety the decision to transfer the conference to Southern Rhodesia, because we believe that the political and racial atmosphere there is not such as encourages either the European or the African leaders to arrive at a constructive settlement, on which, in the long run, the future of Central Africa depends?

Mr. Sandys

I should like to say, in regard to the hon. Gentleman's congratulations, that these fortunate arrangements that have been arrived at between Sir Edgar Whitehead and Mr. Nkomo and his party were arrived at by direct discussions between them, in which I did not take any part. With regard to the place for the further meetings, all I would say is that the decision to hold the next series of meetings in Rhodesia has been taken for purely practical reasons. It is easier to move me to Southern Rhodesia than it is to move about 25 delegates and advisers over here. It does not mean that all further meetings of the conference will necessarily take place in Southern Rhodesia.

Mr. Brockway

Despite the right hon. Gentleman's modest disclaimer, may I ask him whether he is aware that back benchers as well as those on the Front Benches will wish to congratulate both him and the Secretary of State for the Colonies on having advanced matters so far as they have gone? May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that many hon. Members of this House will hope that the conference in Southern Rhodesia will be able to repeat what happened in Nyasaland, and what is likely to happen in Northern Rhodesia, in attaining an African majority in Southern Rhodesia, where the Africans are in such a large majority; and whether it is not the case that the whole future of Central Africa will depend on an African democracy in Southern Rhodesia?

Mr. Sandys

I have noted the hon. Member's point of view, but he will not expect me to anticipate the outcome of the discussions.

Mr. Stonehouse

May I ask the Secretary of State two questions arising out of his statement? Firstly, what is being done about the representation of the non-racial National Democratic Party? Will it be increased from the two which have already been agreed? Secondly, do we understand that the constitutional conference has been called at the invitation of the United Kingdom, and, therefore, the final session will be held in London under his own chairmanship?

Mr. Speaker

I rather think that the first part of that question raises a matter for Which there is no Ministerial responsibility, and, if so, it would be out of order; namely, the constitution of the representation at two conferences.

Mr. Sandys

All that I would say at present is that it is not for me to say what is the correct representation for any particular party or group. Of course, since there will be no voting at a conference of this kind, what really matters is that every group and party should have sufficient representation to enable its point of view to be adequately presented to the conference. The question of numbers is not so important. As regards the future arrangements for the final meeting, to which the hon. Member referred, we are still a long way from the final meeting, but any operative session will be held under the chairmanship of myself or some other United Kingdom Minister.

Mr. J. Dugdale

In welcoming the Minister's decision to go himself to Southern Rhodesia, may I ask him whether we are to understand that he will take part in the conference there, and, if he does, will he take the Chair?

Mr. Sandys

Yes, Sir. I said so in my original Answer.