HC Deb 06 December 1960 vol 631 cc1070-2
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. R. A. Butler)

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a statement about police pay.

As I told the House on 24th November, I referred the Report of the Royal Commission to the Police Council for Great Britain. At a meeting on 30th November the Council agreed to accept the scale of pay recommended for the police constable by the Royal Commission, and to bring it into operation from 1st September. The Council also agreed that scales of pay for the other ranks should be negotiated as soon as possible, and that they should in due course take effect from 1st September. The agreement also covered certain minor points with which I need not trouble the House.

While the Government fully appreciate the considerations which the Royal Commission had in mind, they do not accept all the reasoning and formulae by which the constable's scale was determined by the Commission and by which it recommended that future pay should be governed. However, the Government fully agree with the Commission that the continued increase in crime, the need to strengthen the police, and the reassessment of constables' duties together make it urgently necessary for there to be a very large increase in the pay of police constables relative to other members of the community. The Government therefore welcome the prompt agreement that has been reached on the Police Council, which reflects great credit on both its sides.

I am laying draft Regulations giving effect to the agreement before a meeting of the statutory Police Council for England and Wales tomorrow, and I am asking the police authorities to bring the new scales into payment as soon as possible.

My right hon. Friend has asked me to say that similar action is being taken in Scotland.

Mr. Gaitskell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the agreement of the Police Council to this increase in constables' pay will be generally approved throughout the House? How long will it take the Council to complete its negotiations on the pay of the other ranks?

Mr. Butler

I understand that there is to be a meeting on 5th January, and I hope that agreement will follow shortly after the meeting.

Mr. Grimond

I welcome the increase in police pay. Can the right hon. Gentleman say what effect it will have on police pensions?

Mr. Butler

I should want notice of that question.

Mr. J. T. Price

I do not disagree with the decision to increase police pay, but can the right hon. Gentleman tell us the approximate global cost of the increase and what proportion of it will fall on the Exchequer and what proportion will have to be met from rates?

Mr. Butler

The amount is approximately equally divided between local rates—that is, what the authorities will pay—and the Exchequer. We calculate that the cost to the Exchequer may be upwards of a figure rather below £10 million.

Miss Bacon

When the new scales come into operation, will the right hon. Gentleman consider promoting a great recruiting drive so that there will be sufficient numbers of men and women to ensure the greatest possible deterrent to the criminal, namely, the knowledge that he will be found out?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir. I am grateful to the hon. Lady for asking me that helpful question. We hope that police constables—and, later, the other ranks—will be the best recruiting officers after this very fine increase in their remuneration. We are also contemplating, with the aid of the police forces, a special drive on what I think is one of the most important matters of our time, namely, a stronger, more balanced and efficient police force.

Mr. Bence

I welcome this splendid increase in the pay of policemen, but has the right hon. Gentleman consulted his right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to discover what the inflationary effect might be?

Mr. Butler

My right hon. and learned Friend, naturally, finds this a very considerable burden, as, indeed, will the taxpayer and the ratepayer. However, he was the first to agree with me about the great importance of the expenditure of this particular piece of money.

Mr. W. Hamilton

May I draw attention, Mr. Speaker, to a practice, slowly developing, of a Minister representing England making a statement and then saying that he speaks on behalf of the Secretary of State for Scotland, thereby precluding, or, at any rate, possibly reducing, the number of supplementary questions addressed by Scottish hon. Members to the Secretary of State? In view of the fact that the Scottish police are also involved, would it not be better for the Secretary of State for Scotland, too, to come to the Box, make a separate statement, and then be questioned by Scottish hon. Members?

Mr. Speaker

I understand the hon. Gentleman's difficulty, but the difficulty of the House as a whole is that it appoints its business and has to get through it. I know that more hon. Members want to speak today in the debate than will, in fact, get in, and the longer we prolong these preliminaries the less time there is to do the business of the day. That is the difficulty.

The hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke) had a point of order. I see him no more, so I need not trouble the House about it.