§ The Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. Iain Macleod)With permission, I wish to make a statement on my recent visit to the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.
As the House is aware, my main purpose was to see whether it was now possible to take up the process of constitutional advance in Nyasaland from the point where progress was unfortunately 1476 interrupted by the emergency last year. But I also took the opportunity, in both Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, to have full discussions on current problems with the authorities, and to meet representatives of all shades of political opinion. In Salisbury, I was able to make personal contacts with the Federal Prime Minister, and others, which were most useful and profitable.
In Northern Rhodesia, I thought it desirable to say again, in a public speech on 29th March, that Her Majesty's Govment had no plans in contemplation for constitutional change in that territory, although I could not predict that the outcome of the review of the Federal Constitution might not entail some consequential reconsideration of the territorial Constitution.
On the other hand, it was apparent that those who were pressing for rapid constitutional change were moved by the fear lest the African voice and case would go unheard at the Federal review. Accordingly, I repeated that it was wrong to assume that the delegations to the review conference would necessarily be drawn solely from the Legislative Council of the territory; and in the same speech I reaffirmed that Her Majesty's Government stood by the pledges in the Preamble to the Federal Constitution and would not abandon their responsisibilities to the peoples of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland unless and until all their peoples so desired.
In Nyasaland, I explored the possibilities of constitutional advance in talks which covered the widest possible range of political opinion. In addition to the official and unofficial members of the Executive and Legislative Councils, I met representatives of all the recognised political parties, community and commercial associations, the trade union movement, the different Churches, and the chiefs of all three Provinces. During my visit, the Governor found it possible to implement the decision, which had been taken in principle beforehand, to release Dr. Banda: and Dr. Banda was, therefore, able to lead the Malawi Congress deputation when it met me during the course of my programme.
In all these talks, I was, of course, concerned solely with the situation in Nyasaland itself, having regard both to the "lost year" of the emergency and to 1477 the fact that the Monckton Commission is now at work and the Federal review is in front of us.
As a result of these discussions, I came to the conclusion that there was sufficient ground for calling together a constitutional conference in London during the summer, at which we might try to carry consideration of Nyasaland's constitutional position further forward. As I made plain, however, to the Press conference in Salisbury, on 8th April, at which I announced this decision, there are wide differences between the various viewpoints expressed to me in Nyasaland, and the outcome of the conference will depend very largely on the readiness of the different parties concerned to move towards one another from their present positions. I hope that all will come, as I certainly will, with a determination to make it succeed. I will announce the dates of the conference, which will probably be in July, as soon as possible.
Meantime, there has been a considerable relaxation of tension in Nyasaland. If good order is maintained, as I trust it will be, it will augur well for the conference and for the future.
I concluded my visit with a short stay in Mauritius, during which I was able to see the splendid first-aid recovery work which is being carried out to help the island to meet the effect of the two disastrous cyclones. I was much struck by the splendid morale of the Mauritius people, and was able to put in hand the beginnings of a long-term reconstruction programme, and also to give a message of sympathy and encouragement from the House of Commons.
§ Mr. CallaghanIn welcoming the Colonial Secretary back from his tour, which we think has been a fruitful one, may I ask him whether he will give us a little more information about what he saw in Mauritius, if not today, at any rate by means of a statement in HANSARD? I think that all of us in the House feel that it is very far away and that we have very little first-hand information through the Press about the devastation which has been suffered there. We would be grateful for such a statement.
Did not the Secretary of State find some disappointment in Northern Rhodesia at his inability to hold a 1478 further constitutional review before the Federal Review itself? Although we understand, and have understood, that delegates for the Federal review would not necessarily be drawn from the Legislative Council, is it not the Governments who will have to reach conclusions and, therefore, how will the delegates who are not members of Governments be able to make their case felt in the discussions which are to be held?
Finally, on Nyasaland, is the Secretary of State aware, as I am sure that he is, that we welcome his decision to hold a constitutional conference in July? If he is to make a success of it, will he not have to release the detainees—140 of them—who are still held in detention without any charge being brought against them and have been so held now for over a year? While we support the right hon. Gentleman's decision to release Dr. Banda—indeed, we are not surprised, because we have become used to Ministers in this Government reversing the decisions of their predecessors—may we ask him if it is not the case that he really will have to secure, as a start of this conference, that there must be an acceptance of an African majority, at least in the Legislative Assembly?
§ Mr. MacleodI will certainly find a way to let the House know the exact situation in Mauritius. I was deeply impressed by the work which had been done to help us by the Government there, and by many other Governments, too, and by all the voluntary agencies. I will find a way to let the House know, perhaps by a reply to a Written Question, the exact position as I saw it.
As regards the situation in Northern Rhodesia, it may be that some people were disappointed, although other people were pleased, by the first of the three statements I made. However, those who were disappointed with the first statement were pleased with the second and the third, and that, on the whole, is not too bad a batting average for a Secretary of State.
I recognise the difficulties of the position in Northern Rhodesia, but I think that it is a profound mistake to try to tear up constitutions which are little more, in this case, than a year old. In this case, it would be wrong to do that before we knew the result of the Federal review.
1479 The reason why I regard the situation in Nyasaland as entirely different is that, if it had not been for the emergency, there would have been constitutional advance a year ago in Nyasaland, as a result of the talks that the Minister of State was to undertake when the emergency came upon it.
As for the release of detainees, as the hon. Member says, there are 142, or there were at the time of Dr. Banda's release—nearly all in Kanjedza, which I visited. I have agreed with the Governor that we should resume the programme of accelerated releases. There can be no question of bargaining in this matter. It is a matter of law and order, and can be judged only by that standard. But I am sure—although I cannot commit myself to exact figures —that the overwhelming majority of those still remaining in detention will have been released long before the conference starts in London. Only a handful will still remain in detention then.
As for the precise form that the conference should take, that is clearly a matter upon which I must reserve judgment. I know the points of view put to me, and I know, in particular, the importance that is attached to the question of the majority in the Legislative Council to which the hon. Member referred.
§ Mr. SorensenWhat was the nature of the agreement in principle that preceded the release of Dr. Banda and, by inference, the agreement in principle not to release the other detainees? What is the nature of the discrimination between him and the rest?
§ Mr. MacleodThere is no discrimination. As I have repeated to the point of monotony over the last eight months in the House of Commons, precisely the same conditions had to prevail in the case of Dr. Banda as in the case of anyone else, but since we were coming up to the time of the March review, and since the situation in Nyasaland, on the whole, was a good deal better than people thought it might have been, it was thought that it would then be reasonable for Dr. Banda to be released. His case was treated no differently from that of anyone else.
1480 When I say that the decision was taken in principle beforehand, I mean that the decision that it would be on that particular date had been taken beforehand. I wished to be in Nyasaland at the time of that release, so that I could talk to Dr. Banda at once on the constitutional matters to which I have referred.
§ Mr. GrimondDo we understand from the Minister's reply that, subject to a great deal of reservation which he has expressed, he expects most detainees to be free before July? If so, and if the situation is so much better in Nyasaland, surely we ought to press him strongly to see whether they can be released now. Can he say who may attend the conference? He did not deal with that point. In the case of Northern Rhodesia, do I take it that there is to be no discussion of any constitutional advance until after the Monckton Commission has reported?
§ Mr. MacleodI have said that the accelerated release of detainees will be resumed; indeed, it will already have been resumed. It was resumed on the day after I left the territory, by agreement with the Governor. I cannot commit myself to precise numbers, but I have no doubt that very, very few detainees will still be in detention by the time July comes. The overwhelming majority of the 140 still in detention will have been released long before July.
On the question of the composition of the conference, to confine it to members of the Legislative Council alone would, for obvious reasons, be unsatisfactory in this case. We must bring in people from outside. I have in mind inviting between 15 and 20 people. That seemed to me to be a comfortable number. It will include representatives of the Malawi Congress Party, the United Federal Party and Members of the official and unofficial sides of the Legislative Council.
§ Several Hon. Members rose—
§ Mr. SpeakerIn the interests of other hon. Members we must bring this discussion to an end.