Pigs

HC Deb 26 November 1959 vol 614 cc536-40

7. Sir A. Hurd

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he is taking to improve relations between the Pig Industry Development Authority, appointed by his Department, and the National Pig Breeders Association, representing pedigree breeders, who are in conflict over the accreditation scheme proposed by the authority.

Mr. John Hare

The Pig Industry Development Authority is an independent body constituted under the Agriculture Act, 1957, with certain specified functions. I am sure that my hon. Friend will appreciate that in these circumstances it would be difficult for me to intervene.

Sir A. Hurd

Will my right hon. Friend try to have a word in the ear of the chairman of the Pig Industry Development Authority to ensure that this new statutory body works in the closest possible amity with the old-established breed societies, who have done a great deal to improve the breed and production of good pigs, to ensure that they can go forward in agreement rather than in conflict?

Mr. Hare

Obviously, that would be desirable. It is not for me to prejudge this question, which is much the responsibility of the Authority. I will, however, certainly bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

Mr. Peart

When considering the matter in relation to the pig industry, is the Minister not aware that only this week the returns show a decrease of 700,000, as compared with last year, in the pig population as a result of lack of confidence in Government policy? Is not that the real problem in the industry?

Mr. Hare

The hon. Member is making his intervention on the wrong Question. He can do that later.

17. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is aware that, on the evidence of his quarterly census figures, the pig breeding herd in England and Wales in September, 1959, was the lowest for any quarter since September, 1955; and if he will state his future policy with regard to the size of the pig herd in this country so that farmers and others may plan their production and marketing to achieve maximum efficiency.

Mr. John Hare

Yes, Sir. But the monthly sample censuses since June have shown that the decline has been arrested, and past experience suggests that an increase in the breeding herd can now be expected. I have already given an assurance that the standard price for pigs will not be reduced after the next Annual Review, and there is no reason why pig producers should not plan ahead with confidence.

Mr. Nabarro

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the combination of the statistics revealed in this Question and the two succeeding Questions has conspired to create an atmosphere of gloom in the pig-rearing industry? Will he announce at a very early date the results of his continuous discussion of that with the interests concerned?

Mr. Hare

Yes, I am sure my hon. Friend will join with me in trying to disperse this atmosphere of unnecessary gloom. We shall come in a moment to the details of the matter on subsequent Questions. As to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I hope to be in a position, having examined very carefully the various representations which have been put to me, to make a statement fairly shortly.

Mr. Lipton

Was it not made very clear by the Government not very long ago and on more than one occasion that too many pigs were being produced? What is the use of hon. Members who support the Government belly-aching now about the situation?

Mr. Nabarro

Not a Parliamentary term.

Mr. Hare

I rather agree with my hon. Friend that that was an un-Parliamentary term, but the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) must be fair. At the beginning of 1958 pig subsidies were running very high indeed, at a rate of £40 million a year, and there was a great danger that the subsidies would go up. That was why in the February Price Review in 1958 a fairly drastic cut was made.

Mr. Peart

Would not the Minister agree, in view of my previous supplementary question, in which I pointed out that there had been a decline compared with last year of 700,000 pigs, that that is a rather serious situation for the industry? Surely there should be no complacency about it?

Mr. Hare

I think the hon. Member is doing me a discourtesy if he suggests that I am in any way complacent, because I am not. What I have pointed out is that the breeding herd figure has, in fact, levelled out since last June. From past experience, it would seem likely that the curve will start to rise now that the fall has been checked.

18. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware that the production of bacon in Great Britain in the September quarter, 1959, was lower than in any comparable period since decontrol in 1954 and is continuing to fall; and what steps he is taking, other than the introduction of separate price guarantees for bacon pigs, to ensure that British bacon will continue to be available to meet consumer demand.

Mr. John Hare

Yes. Sir, but I would remind my hon. Friend that production for the United Kingdom as a whole was, in fact, higher in the September quarter of 1959 than in the corresponding period in 1956. In addition, during the 10 months January to October this year, bacon production in the United Kingdom was only 1 per cent. less than last year.

Mr. Nabarro

Figures can be made to mean anything. [An HON. MEMBER: "For coal and oil, for instance."] I am just as good at interpreting them as my right hon. Friend is. Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what progress he has now made in the important consideration of the separation of guarantees of pork pigs from bacon pigs, which seems to be at the heart of this important matter?

Mr. Hare

I know how skilful my hon. Friend is in producing figures, but he must allow me the use of my figures just as he has the right to use his. On the question about the separation of guarantees, I think it would be better if the House were to await the statement which will not now be very long delayed.

Mr. Willey

Are we going to get any action? A statement is not good enough. We want to know whether any action is to be taken by the Government, for this reason, that speculation about whether there is to be Government action or inaction is only going to make things worse. What I and, I am sure, the House wants to know is whether the Government will take action about this before the next Price Review.

Mr. Hare

I am sure the hon. Gentleman does not want to lecture me. I am sure the House is well aware that my statement will cover the very points which are being raised in the House at the moment.

Mr. Lipton

Before the Price Review?

Mr. Turton

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that bacon production in this country has gone down very much and that the import of bacon pigs in recent months has increased very much—in some cases, that of Yugoslav imports, for instance, by 250 per cent.—over last year's figures? Will he take action by negotiations with the countries concerned to secure that there will be a more even import at a lower rate of pigs?

Mr. Hare

I certainly am considering the very point my right hon. Friend has just made, but, with his usual clarity, he did say "only in recent months" have bacon producers been getting lower prices. That is fair, because in previous months they had been doing rather better than the pork producers.

Mr. Willey

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the industry does not want a lecture from him but to know whether he is going to take any action? What the Government have said so far—does the right hon. Gentleman recognise this?—is that they will not reduce the guarantees in the next Price Review. That is regarded as not sufficient by the industry.

Mr. Hare

The hon. Gentleman is a great arguer. Surely he will admit that his second supplementary question does not add anything to his first.

19. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware that for the last ten weeks the return to quality pig producers who are the section of the industry who have done most to improve the standards of our breeding herds, has averaged, including the Government's quality premium, more than 1s. a score below the standard price; if he is satisfied that this accords with the fulfilment of his duties to agricultural producers under the Agriculture Act, 1947; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. John Hare

The average returns to producers of graded bacon pigs have recently been below the standard price. But earlier this year they were above the standard price, and the average return from 30th March to 22nd November was, in fact, just above the standard price. The specialist producer of quality bacon pigs has done better than the average.

Mr. Nabarro

Yes, Sir, but my right hon. Friend has joined with me in the last few years in agricultural areas in encouraging the production of quality pigs for both pork and bacon. [An HON. MEMBER: "How?"] By exhortation and otherwise. Is it not a little unfortunate that, after these large sums of money have been invested by pig producers in the raising of quality herds, their return now should be such a very small margin, if at all, above the standard price? Could not my right hon. Friend do what is really necessary in this matter and raise the guarantees, which would give satisfaction?

Mr. Hare

Again, I am sure my hon. Friend will do me the courtesy of waiting for the statement which I hope to make.

Mr. Lipton

The Price Review?

Mr. Hare

No, Sir. I think that the occasion of that statement is the one on which these questions can be answered in greater detail than they can be answered at the moment.