HC Deb 12 November 1959 vol 613 cc570-3
20 and 21. Miss Lee

asked the Minister of Education (1) by how much the supply of school dentists falls short of the number necessary to provide an adequate service; and by what date the present shortage will be remedied;

(2) what emergency measures he has considered to deal with the present shortage of school dentists; and if he will indicate their nature.

25. Mr. Dodds

asked the Minister of Education in view of the widespread concern at the deterioration that has taken place in the school dental service, what action he has taken to improve the situation; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. K. Thompson

Since 1951, when the number was at its lowest, there has been an increase of the equivalent of more than 300 full-time school dentists. In 1958 the number was over 1,000, but twice as many are needed to provide a fully comprehensive service. The shortage can be overcome only by a general increase in the supply of dentists. This is a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health with whom my right hon. Friend is, of course, in close touch.

Miss Lee

How far are the Government pressing forward with supplementary services such as dental nurses, with I hope no discrimination against men—let both women and men take up the job—and hygienists? The Parliamentary Secretary must be aware that the record of the Government in the past few years is appalling, but we should all now like to co-operate to give the maximum help in the minimum time to the children.

Mr. Thompson

I do not think that the House will accept the final condemnation of the Government made by the hon. Lady. I assure her that the other two parts of the supplementary service are being proceeded with by my right hon. and learned Friend.

Mr. Dodds

Is it not a fact that the situation has worsened? Can the Parliamentary Secretary deny that in some places there are 600 or 700 children to one dentist? How can he and his right hon. Friend be so complacent? Why are they not trying to stir the Minister of Health into getting some in the schools and, under their own steam, inaugurating a campaign to encourage children to look after their teeth more and eat fewer "lollies"?

Mr. Thompson

The hon. Gentleman does not help his case by his vehemence. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] The fact is that there are now the equivalent of about 300 more whole-time school dentists than there were in 1951. That is not a deterioration in the service. We are, nevertheless, very concerned to see an improvement and my right hon. Friend is co-operating with my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health.

Mr. Bevan

Is the hon. Member aware that he does not help his case by his evasiveness? How many dental hygienists are now in employment?

Mr. Thompson

If the right hon. Gentleman will put that question on the Order Paper I will endeavour to answer it.

Mr. Bevan

Has not this a direct relevance to the number of dentists available?

Mr. Thompson

I have to rely on the terms of the Questions addressed to me. I try to answer them.

Miss Lee

On a point of order. I tabled a specific Question asking the Minister: what emergency measures he has considered to deal with the present shortage of school dentists; and if he will indicate their nature. I have had no reply to that Question.

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of order.

Mr. M. Stewart

As my hon. Friend has pointed out, the Minister was asked what steps he is taking to deal with the shortage of dentists. In preparing his Answer to that Question, surely he acquainted himself with the numbers of hygienists being brought into training. Can he not tell us?

Mr. Thompson

I have answered the Question on the Order Paper. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] The House, I have no doubt, has taken note of the Answers given by my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health in an exchange in the House on Monday.

Mr. Bevan

Is it not quite clear to hon. Members on this side of the House, if it is not equally clear to hon. Members opposite, that the decision, taken after very considerable investigation, to employ dental hygienists in New Zealand, which was adopted when I was there, was aimed at saving the work of skilled dentists? Therefore, the one has a direct relationship with the other.

Mr. Thompson

I have already informed the House that both the hygienists and the auxiliaries are being prepared for the service.

Miss Lee

Will the Parliamentary Secretary give some indication of the scale of the operation now taking place? Are there 50 or are there 100 being trained? Where are they now trained?

Mr. Thompson

Those supplementary questions are appropriate to my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health and not to me.

Mr. Dodds

On a point of order. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the Answer, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.