§ Colonel BeamishI am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity to make a personal explanation about an incident that occurred in the House on 12th March. I am referring to columns 1478 to 1481 of HANSARD. The right hon. Lady the Member for Warrington (Dr. Summerskill), whom I have told that I intended to make a personal explanation today, was speaking about the allegedly high prices charged for a group of drugs known as corticosteroids for two years prior to July, 1958. The right hon. Lady used the following words:
I think that the Minister will be rather shocked by my next comment. The other day, when this matter was raised in the House, the only support which the Minister received when asked about this matter was from the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Colonel Beamish). The hon. and gallant Member was asked to declare his interest. He said nothing. I understand that the hon. and gallant Gentleman, last November, was made a director of the drug firm, Smith, Kline and French, a private American company."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 12th March, 1959; Vol. 601, C. 1478–9.]On two later occasions in her speech, the right hon. Lady repeated the accusation that I had concealed an interest that should have been declared.Then followed some exchanges across the Floor of the House which occupy another two columns of HANSARD. It was these exchanges which, presumably, led to the very wide newspaper and radio publicity, in this country and abroad, which was given to the right hon. Lady's remarks. One example will suffice to underline my anxiety about this matter. The Daily Telegraph, which was one of the newspapers that had the courtesy to telephone to ask me to make a comment, carried the headline:
Dr. Summerskill accuses M.P.U.S. firm keeping up prices.This headline seems to summarise accurately the charges made by the right hon. Lady and was typical of many other newspapers.I have been suffering from influenza for the past week and for that reason was absent, and paired, from the debate last Thursday, although I came to the House for an hour against doctor's orders to attend a Committee of which I am vice-chairman. The right hon. Lady 412 did not warn me that she intended to make a personal attack upon me. She implied, no doubt unintentionally, that the occasion on which I did not declare an interest was during a debate.
In fact, it was in Question Time on 16th February, when I asked my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health a supplementary question, the reference to which is column 22 of HANSARD. It was then that the right hon. Lady and other hon. Members opposite challenged me to declare my interest. I did not do this simply because I had declared my interest on the last occasion when I spoke in a debate about the National Health Service, which is reported in column 246 of HANSARD of 25th February, 1958, and you yourself, Mr. Speaker, ruled on 5th February, 1953, that Members are not required or expected to declare an interest during Question Time.
I should state quite clearly that for about three years I have been doing advisory work for a well-known American pharmaceutical manufacturer, Smith, Kline and French, which has a subsidiary in this country, and that last November I was appointed a director. There has never been any secret about this. The right hon. Lady implied that Smith, Kline and French was one of the companies alleged to have been pronteering by selling the corticosteroid group of drugs at excessive prices and alleged to belong to a so-called drug ring. The fact is that Smith, Kline and French is not, and never has been, a producer of corticosteroids.
§ Dr. SummerskillI did not expect to have to delay the House for more than a few moments, but I must answer the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Lewes (Colonel Beamish).
In the first place, it has always been my custom to inform hon. Members if I mention them in debates. Last Thursday, when I raised this matter, I did not inform the hon. and gallant Gentleman, not from any discourtesy and not from forgetfulness, but simply due to the fact that, as he will recall, he made a rather violent interjection which was directed at me at Question Time in the House.
I think that any hon. Member here would assume that, when there was to be a debate which was directed towards 413 drugs, the hon. and gallant Gentleman would be in his seat. I am, therefore, shocked to learn of his ignorance. Directly I made these remarks, one of my hon. Friends went out and found the hon. and gallant Gentleman in conversation with the hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), and told him what had happened. I sat here waiting for the hon. and gallant Gentleman for three hours. Does this mean that, when the hon. and gallant Gentleman was told this, his temperature shot up and he left the House?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Personal statements are not debatable matters. The right hon. Lady is only at liberty to say either that she accepts or does not accept the explanation that has been made. We must not debate it now.
§ Dr. SummerskillI was quite prepared to make what I have to say very brief, Sir, but I was surprised when the hon. and gallant Gentleman talked about his influenza. I really felt that I should tell the House that, immediately I made my statement, the hon. and gallant Gentleman seemed to be very fit and well in the Inner Lobby. I think that, as a doctor, I should say this. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I think that, as the hon. and gallant Gentleman is pleading influenza, I have a right to say that he was seen in the Inner Lobby immediately after I made my statement.
So far as drugs are concerned, I must ask the hon. and gallant Member to read HANSARD again. There has been a general attack on the American rings, which was quite right, by many hon. Members on both sides of this House.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. A personal statement is not debatable. This matter can be raised in the form of debate, when there is a proper occasion. I have already told the right hon. Lady that she is quite entitled to say that she does not accept the statement that has been made by the hon. and gallant Gentleman, and to return to it on another occasion.
§ Mr. GaitskellIs it not a fact, Mr. Speaker, that a personal statement is 414 also supposed to be completely non-controversial? [An HON. MEMBLR: "What about the hon. Member for Wednesbury?"] The statement of my hon. Friend the Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) was regarded generally as being a pure and simple statement of the facts, which, I think I am right in saying, was approved by you, Sir.
In view of the statment made by the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Colonel Beamish) just now, which certainly included a quite severe attack upon my right hon. Friend the Member for Warrington (Dr. Summerskill)— [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Oh, yes—is she not, in these circumstances, perfectly entitled to reply to the attack made upon her?
§ Mr. SpeakerI read the statement which has been made by the hon. and gallant Member for Lewes (Colonel Beamish) before I allowed it to be made. I think that the gist of the matter was that the hon. and gallant Member was complaining that the right hon. Lady had said that he had a private interest which he had not disclosed when he asked his supplementary question on 16th February. He complains further that the right hon. Lady said that the firm of which he is a director, and the connection with which he has previously avowed in this House, was concerned in this corticosteroid business, and that he thought it proper to deny both these allegations.
I think that that was quite proper. It is, at any rate, quite straightforward. It is the hon. and gallant Member's view that he thinks he has been wronged by the statement and he is entitled to say so, as long as he does not enter into the merits of the matter. The right hon. Lady is entitled to say that she accepts the statement, the explanation which has been given, or does not accept it, but if the matter is to be debated another occasion must be found for that.
§ Dr. SummerskillI am quite prepared to accept the fact—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear hear."] Wait for it—that the hon. and gallant Gentleman was made a director, on 8th November, of the American firm of Smith, Kline and French, because it is recorded at Bush House, where the records of this company are kept.