HC Deb 04 March 1959 vol 601 cc436-42
30 and 31. Mr. Chapman

asked the Postmaster-General (1) whether he is aware that, at 7.30 p.m., approximately, on Southern Television on 31st January, an unnatural break was made for advertisements in the film, "Cheyenne", the film being interrupted at its climax, just as one character was listening to the start of an Indian attack and being resumed with another character, alongside, also listening; and, as this constitutes a breach of the Television Act, what action he is taking against the Independent Authority;

(2) whether he is aware that, at 9.20 p.m. approximately, on 7th February, during the Southern Television programme, an artificial break was made for advertisements, the screening being interrupted at Mr. R. Beatty is seen arriving at a house in a car, and being resumed as he gets out of it; and, as this is a breach of the Television Act, what action he is taking against the Independent Television Authority.

Mr. K. Thompson

The Authority assures me that in both cases the breaks in which these advertisements were inserted were natural breaks, in compliance with the Television Act. It is its responsibility under Section 4 (3) of the Act to ensure that this is so.

Mr. Chapman

How can this be the case? Is it not a fact that the Authority has at last committed itself to saying that a natural break in a film occurs when there is a significant change of scene or lapse of time? Does the hon. Member believe that that happens when, in a film such as that mentioned in Question No. 30, one of two men standing alongside each other is shown watching an event and a break of one second in the action takes place, when the advertisement is inserted, and the second man is then shown watching the same event? How can that be a natural break, even by the standards set by the Authority itself?

Mr. Thompson

This shows how difficult it is to agree on what constitutes a natural break even when watching the same programme. I have before me an account given by the Independent Television Authority of this scheme. There were close-ups of the faces of a beleaguered party preparing for a mass Indian attack, with shots of vultures wheeling round the sky and so on. The break then occurred. Immediately following the break a single member of the party was seen in close-up, and the prevailing indecision about when the Indians would attack was resolved by the cry, "Here they come!"

Mr. Ness Edwards

I hope that the hon. Member is not suggesting that commercial vultures caused the break. Is it not a fact that more and more the Independent Television Authority is failing to discharge its responsibilities under the Act? Ought not his right hon. Friend to take steps to change the membership of the Authority?

Mr. Thompson

As I have often said in the House, it is a matter for the Authority itself to guard against this in its observance of the terms of the Television Act.

Mr. Chapman

Would the Minister answer the question which I put to him? The Authority said that there must be a significant change of scene or lapse of time. How does that square with the account which he has given of the scene which I mentioned? Was it not a case of continuous action, with no lapse of time and no change of scene?

Mr. Thompson

As I have said, it is often a matter of opinion as to what constitutes a lapse of time or a significant change of scene. I am bound to say that in this instance the Authority has a good deal on its side in its case.

Sir R. Grimston

Are not the public likely to be the final arbiters in this matter by switching over to the B.B.C. if they are as annoyed by these breaks as hon. Members opposite have suggested?

Mr. Thompson

I am sure that the finger on the switch is by far the best controlling instrument.

41. Mr. Ness Edwards

asked the Postmaster-General what machinery he has at his disposal for ensuring that all advertisements on commercial television conform to the four conditions laid down in Principles for Television Advertising, approved by him, namely, that they should be legal, clean, honest, and truthful.

Mr. K. Thompson

This is a matter for the Authority which has a duty under the Television Act to comply and secure compliance with the recommendations of its Advertising Advisory Committee. As the foreword makes clear, the principles are based on the recommendations of that Committee.

Mr. Ness Edwards

In view of the fact that the Postmaster-General has to approve the principles for advertising, do I take it that he has no machinery by which to ensure that the principles are applied by the Independent Television Authority?

Mr. Thompson

It is the responsibility of the Authority, as is clearly set out in the Act, to see that the principles of the Committee are adhered to.

Mr. Ness Edwards

Do I take it from that answer that the Independent Television Authority can completely fail to carry out the principles which the Postmaster-General has approved and that no action can be taken?

Mr. Thompson

If the right hon. Gentleman will let me have some evidence of failure, I will attend to it.

42. Mr. Ness Edwards

asked the Postmaster-General what directions he has given under Section 4 (5) of the Television Act, 1954, relating to the claims made for patent medicines in commercial television advertisements.

Mr. K. Thompson

None, Sir. The principles for television advertising contain the rule that the advertising of medicines and treatment must comply with the basic standard of "The British Code of Standards in relation to the Advertising of Medicines and Treatments".

Mr. Ness Edwards

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that for the past two years the dentists' association has been complaining about the false claims made for certain tooth powders and that sort of thing? Do I understand that their association has no remedy whatever in applying to the Postmaster-General himself?

Mr. Thompson

The same rules are accepted by the Television Advertising Advisory Committee as apply to advertising generally. They are constantly under review.

Mr. Ness Edwards

In this case, an appeal has been made by the professional association, which is recognised by all parties, to the I.T.A. It has made its objections against these false claims. Do I understand that the Postmaster-General can do nothing about it?

Mr. Thompson

The responsibility rests firmly upon the Authority.

Dr. Summerskill

How does the British Code of Standards, which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, relate to the proprietary drugs which are now advertised and which have no therapeutic value at all?

Mr. Thompson

All advertisements and claims for these proprietary drugs are considered by the Committee and would not be approved if they were wildly extravagant.

44. Mr. Chapman

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that, despite its own regulations that advertising at peak hours shall not exceed eight minutes in the clock-hour, the Independent Television Authority broadcast 9½ minutes of advertising, bringing extra revenue of over £2,000, between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. on Saturday, 25th October, and that it again exceeded the limit during the same period on Sunday, 26th October, and on various subsequent weekends; and whether, as the Authority does not effectively control programme contractors in this matter, he will issue his own regulations under Section 4 (4) of the Television Act, giving the exact advertising time which must not be exceeded.

Mr. K. Thompson

From the beginning there has been a definite arrangement that the overall daily average of advertising should not be more than six minutes an hour and the amount of advertising is always within this limit. The eight minutes to which the hon. Member refers was part of the arrangement made by the Authority at the beginning of 1958. Under this the amount of advertising in any one hour was broadly limited to eight minutes subject to the overall average which I have mentioned. The Authority regards some flexibility as reasonable depending on the different types and lengths of programmes. The answer is the last part of the Question is "No, Sir."

Mr. Chapman

Where will it end if it goes on like this? If the Authority says that eight minutes must be the maximum, is 9½ minutes too much? Can it be ten, 11 or 12 minutes? Is eight minutes in the hour to be exceeded every Saturday, as it has been recently? Are these abuses never to be checked by the I.T.A. or by the Postmaster-General?

Mr. Thompson

The Authority has a responsibility to see that the amount of advertising is not such as will detract from the value of the programmes. This is a matter which the Authority can judge in conjunction with the listening and viewing figures, which it has constantly to watch.

Mr. Gower

Is it not a fact that if there were no advertising these programmes would cost the taxpayer an awful lot of money?

47. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Postmaster-General on whose monitoring and transcription service he relies for ensuring observance of the regulations on advertising, agreed by him with the Independent Television Authority.

Mr. K. Thompson

This is a matter for the Authority, whose duty it is to secure that the provisions of the Television Act in regard to advertising are complied with.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Authority has no monitoring or transcription service? Can he confirm that the transcription services used by the I.T.A. and by himself are, in fact, the transcription services of the programme contractors?

Mr. Thompson

I am not sure what is the purpose behind the hon. Member's supplementary question. The fact is that the Authority itself watches every programme and every advertisement, as it is required to do. When it is called upon, as it has been recently, and as the hon. Member knows, to provide a transcript of a broadcast, it is able to do so.

Mr. Mayhew

Will the hon. Gentleman make plain that the transcript to which he refers and which he sent me when I made a complaint against Associated Rediffusion was not a transcript made by Associated Rediffusion itself? Will the hon. Gentleman confirm this?

Mr. Thompson

I will look into that.

48. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the assurances given by Her Majesty's Government at the time of the passage of the Television Act, he will use his powers under the Second Schedule of the Act to prevent the broadcasting of more than six minutes of advertising in an hour.

Mr. K. Thompson

From the beginning the Independent Television Authority has had a definite arrangement that the overall daily average of advertising should not be more than six minutes an hour and the total amount of advertising is always within this limit. The Authority informs me that in January, the last month for which national figures are available, the average amount of advertising per hour was, in fact, under four minutes.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the Assistant Postmaster-General aware that at the time of the passing of the Act the Government gave an assurance that the amount of advertising should be six minutes in the hour? Is he aware that the I.T.A. interprets this to mean that programme contractors may broadcast eight minutes and more advertising at peak hours when sets are switched on, provided only that they broadcast less than six minutes of advertising at other times when no one is watching? Is this a fair interpretation of the phrase "six minutes in the hour"?

Mr. Thompson

It was always intended that it should be averaged over the day.

Hon. Members

No.

49. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that in a film of the Erskine-Pastrano boxing broadcast by the Independent Television Authority on 25th February, rounds five and seven were cut out in order to make room for advertisements; and, in view of the fact that the provisions regarding breaks for advertising are no longer closely observed, or firmly enforced, whether he will use his powers under the Second Schedule of the Television Act to prevent the insertion of advertisements, otherwise than in natural breaks, in programmes.

Mr. K. Thompson

The Authority tells me that the programme to which the hon. Member refers was billed in the Television Times as showing only the highlights of the contest. There was no intention to show the whole of the fight. The answer to the second part of the Question is "No, Sir."

Mr. Mayhew

In general, if we accept as natural breaks the intervals between the rounds of a boxing match, is it a natural break when the rounds are left cut altogether?

Mr. Thompson

I imagine that it depends upon the type of programme. In this case, it was not intended to be a full broadcast of the fight.