HC Deb 03 March 1959 vol 601 cc213-6
The Secretary of State for the Home Department and Lord Privy Seal (Mr. R. A. Butler)

I have a short statement to make on business.

Arrangements have been made, following discussions through the usual channels, for the Opposition Motion relating to the Prohibition of Entry into a British Protectorate to be debated tomorrow, Wednesday, at 7 p.m.

We hope to make good progress with the House Purchase and Housing Bill until that hour, and it has been agreed to complete the remaining stages of the Bill in one further day.

Mr. Gaitskell

We are glad to have made available Opposition time for this debate on the understanding announced by the right hon. Gentleman, but may I now ask him whether, in view of this debate, the Government will make a statement on the deportation of the hon. Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) from Northern Rhodesia?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. The hon. and learned member for Leicester, North-East (Sir L. Ungoed-Thomas), who intervened with you earlier, Sir, on a point of order, brought up certain evidence which is in process of being examined. I think that it would be a far more sensible course for the House if we were to adhere to the debate tomorrow, when the Government will be only too pleased to answer the challenge of the Opposition and give all the latest information. I think that that would not only be the most appropriate course, but would also be the more efficient course. We shall be perfectly ready to give full information on that occasion.

Mr. Gaitskell

Is the reason why the Government are unwilling or unable to give the information today that they are not sure of the facts at the moment, but that, as soon as they have the facts available, they will make a statement to the House?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. Perhaps I was being too modest. In my opinion, at least one of the facts given by the hon. and learned Member for Leicester, North-East is untrue, but I do not want to say that until I have verified it. Therefore, I think that it would be very much better that my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary should make an authoritative statement after checking the facts which the hon. and learned Member has brought to our attention; otherwise, we cannot make an authoritative statement which we can be sure is correct. I am quite sure that it would be wrong to make any imputations or statements which cannot be verified. As we have a debate tomorrow, it is far more sensible that the whole interchange should take place tomorrow.

Mr. Shinwell

As there appears to be some confusion—at least, I confess that I am confused myself on the legal and constitutional position—would it not be advisable for those of us who are not familiar with the subject, if the Government issued a statement, perhaps a short White Paper, before the debate tomorrow, setting forth what they regard as the legal and constitutional position so that those of us who are not fully informed on the subject, and who are certainly not experts on it, will be able to assess the position correctly?

Mr. Butler

I sympathise with the right hon. Gentleman in that the Acts, particularly the Act of 1953, followed by certain actions of the Federal Legislature, when read together, are very complicated. They have to be read with a Schedule to understand the full implications of this matter. I have done my best, with the aid of my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General, to understand the matter.

If I may be permitted to discuss the practicability of a short statement with my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary, may I say that he has already said to me that he will do his best to meet the wish of the right hon. Gentleman and the House? If we find it impossible, I cannot go further, but I will do my best to see that there is something available which will make the debate a little dearer.

Mr. Gaitskell

May we take it that the Government will be prepared to make a short statement at the end of Questions tomorrow, both on the legal position as they see it, and on the question of the hon. Member for Wednesbury, before the debate is opened from this side of the House?

Mr. Butler

I am not so sure whether we should adopt that procedure or attempt to put something on paper. I think that it is probably better to put it on paper, because the House has a natural inclination to extend its discussions following upon a Government statement, especially on such a controversial matter. If we are to have the debate at seven o'clock in the evening, I think that it would be better to reserve most of this debate until then, but if we can set out anything that will clarify the position it will be to the advantage of all concerned.

Mr. Shinwell

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will seek to implement the promise which he has just made, because it appears to me that if there is no statement on paper which hon. Members can examine, and about which they can come to a conclusion, and if it is left entirely to the Attorney-General's statement, there may be more confusion? Will he see that there is something on paper?

Mr. Butler

I have said that I will do my best to meet the wishes of the right hon. Gentleman and the House. I have already had consultations with my right hon. Friend the Colonial Secretary on this subject.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

In the statement which the Government are to prepare, Will they include information about any hon. Members of this House who have been deported, either from foreign countries or British Colonial Territories, and show what action has been taken by the Government in such cases?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. I would confine my compliance with the request of the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) to the point which he raised about the need for clarification of the legal position. Then, opinions, precedents and other matters can be raised in the debate.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

To clarify the whole situation, will my right hon. Friend consider with his right hon. Friends whether it might be possible to include in the information made available to the House the text of the speeches which the hon. Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) made overseas?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. No doubt, reference can be made to these speeches from the published extracts which are available in the House to anybody who is interested, but I really must confine my understanding to the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman; otherwise, we shall have confusion.