Superannuitants

HC Deb 10 June 1959 vol 606 cc982-5

19. Mr. Ridsdale

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what official view has been expressed to him as a result of the British Transport Commission's reconsideration of its pension supplement scheme; and if he will make a statement.

25. Dame Irene Ward

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will give an assurance that no additional financial resources will be made available to the British Transport Commission which do not include some financial provision out of which pensions increases on the same basis as that made to Crown servants can be paid to railway superannuitants.

Mr. Nugent

The Commission has reviewed the matter very carefully and has reluctantly come to the conclusion that because of its present financial situation it cannot incur any additional expenditure for improving pension supplements. Superannuation arrangements are matters which we must regard as the responsibility of the British Transport Commission. In view of its statutory financial obligations we must have regard to what in its judgment it can afford to do.

Mr. Ridsdale

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the railway superannuitants for whom I am pressing for a pension increase are old employees of the Harwich to the Continent steamship service who served well in the past, as their successors are doing now? Would not my hon. Friend agree that failure to award an increase in pension to those who contributed towards it cannot but be detrimental to the long-term efficiency of the transport services?

Mr. Nugent

I am only sorry that we cannot help more.

Dame Irene Ward

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that I think nothing of industrialists, whether in nationalised or private industries, who do not do the right thing by old loyal servants? Will he also bear in mind that I personally would much prefer to pay to our old railway servants some of the money which is going to the cotton industry?

Mr. Nugent

I think Sir Brian Robertson is no less conscious than my hon. Friend of the humanitarian considerations, but he has his statutory responsibility to discharge, and that he is trying to do.

Mr. Ernest Davies

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the Commission is acting meanly in this respect? Does he realise that what is happening is that pensioners are in effect subsidising the British Transport Commission? The British Transport Commission is being heavily subsidised at the present time and here one particular section of ex-employees is being asked to carry the burden also.

Mr. Nugent

The British Transport Commission has a statutory responsibility to make its accounts balance, taking one year with another. The estimated deficit is now between £80 million and £90 million a year, and clearly the Commission's first obligation is to bring its accounts into balance before it can do something which is quite outside its statutory responsibility.

Dame Irene Ward

The Commission wastes a lot of money.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

Is it not shortsighted policy to reward the loyalty of old servants by treating them so meanly?

Mr. Nugent

I cannot accept that they are being treated meanly. The Commission would like to increase pensions if it could, but it has not the means for doing so.

Sir G. Nicholson

In the view of the general public, not to speak of the superannuitants, these people are former State employees although they may not be so in a technical sense. Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that it does not speak well of the State if, when economies have to be made in a nationalised industry, a lot of the burden falls on former servants who did good service when the railways were in private hands?

Mr. Nugent

I am aware of that and have been told about it before by hon. Members. I am sorry that it is not within the means of the Commission to help these people at present.

Mr. Ridsdale

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at an early opportunity.

Later—

Dame Irene Ward

I appreciate that Question No. 25 has been answered, but may I ask another supplementary question?

Mr. Speaker

No. The hon. Lady asked a supplementary question at the time.