HC Deb 29 July 1959 vol 610 cc486-90
13. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what licences have been granted by the Air Transport Advisory Council on behalf of his Department for the operation of inclusive tours by Independent Air Travel Ltd., or its successor company, Blue Air Ltd.

Mr. Watkinson

If the Question relates to approvals currently in force, the answer is "None, Sir".

Mr. Beswick

If that is the case, how does it come about that this company is operating regularly each week from this country to the Continent and is not laying before the Minister any of the operating schedules? What action is he taking in this matter?

Mr. Watkinson

I do not know whether the hon. Member is dealing with charter work, licensed work or inclusive tours, or what. As he knows as well as I do, there are certain charter operations which any operator can carry out that do not require prior approval from my Ministry. As to the general issue, that is raised in later Questions of his own.

Mr. Beswick

The right hon. Gentleman cannot get away from it. This company, under another name, was granted certain licences to operate certain scheduled tours. As he said last week, the licences were taken away. The company is still carrying on with its programme. What action is the right hon. Gentleman taking?

Mr. Watkinson

As I have said, the hon. Member had better await the Answer to another Question of his. I am not sure that the hon. Member is wise to pursue this vendetta against independent airlines.

Mr. Beswick

On a point of order. Is the Minister in order in suggesting that proper Questions, properly put to him, about matters which are of public concern can be characterised as a vendetta?

Mr. Speaker

The expression "vendetta" really means a feud, does it not? It is something like that, and I think that within the realms of ordinary Parliamentary discussion I have heard very much worse things said.

14. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what representations have been made to his Department about the operation of weekly air services by Independent Air Travel Ltd., or Blue Air Ltd., on behalf of its associated company, Sky Tours Ltd.; and what replies have been given to those representations.

Mr. Watkinson

The right hon. Gentleman originally raised with my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary the question of Independent Air Travel. I understand that the functions of this company have now been taken over by Blue Air Travel Ltd. Representations that operations by Blue Air were in contravention of Section 24 of the Air Corporations Act, 1949 were made to my Department on 6th June and 1st July. Replies to both representations were that the matter was already under consideration. Inquiries are still proceeding.

Mr. Beswick

Is the Minister aware that this is the first time I have put a Question to him about this matter and that one Question does not mean either a vendetta or, with respect, Mr. Speaker, a feud? May I ask if the right hon. Gentleman is aware what sort of figure he will cut, having said that he has taken away the licences from these companies, and they having consistently operated since May of this year, if they are involved in another accident? What conclusions are the public to draw?

Mr. Watkinson

I am very glad the hon. Member is making plain that he is pursuing this on a narrow front of particular companies, and I entirely accept that. I will try to explain as clearly as I can, although, as I think the hon. Member will accept, this is a somewhat complicated issue.

I have said very clearly in my Answer that we are already proceeding with an investigation into allegations that Blue Air, which I understand is the successor to the company which the hon. Member mentioned in his previous Question, is in contravention of Section 24 of the Air Corporations Act, 1949. I certainly assure the hon. Member that these investigations will be pressed forward and, if a prosecution lies, my Ministry will take all the actions necessary to see that it is brought. But I want to make quite plain that, as I am sure the House understands, these companies can operate under certain charter arrangements with which my Ministry, at present anyway, has no power to interfere.

Mr. Bence

If a man has his licence endorsed for life and then, by deed poll, he changes his name, can he get another licence?

Mr. Watkinson

I do not think that is relevant, but I think that the hon. Member would like to know—perhaps he did not hear it in the recent debate in the House—that I have said that on the representations of independent air operators themselves I am proposing to introduce a system of licensing which will enable a licence to be taken away from a company if it is felt desirable so to do.

Mr. Strauss

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this company having come to public attention, when one asks Questions about it after allegations are made, which may or may not be true, that it is contravening an Act of Parliament, an hon. Member is not carrying on a vendetta but asking something in. the public interest? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, according to information in our possession, this company is taking about 600 people a week to Europe and has been doing so since May? Will he quickly come to a decision and find out whether in fact this company is legally in contravention of an Act of Parliament and, if so, take quick action to stop its being so?

Mr. Watkinson

I shall be only too pleased to do it and, if the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends have information which will help in that, I hope that they will let me have it. I would remind them that in previous debates when they have made representations on this matter they have been asked for information and they have been unable to provide it. If this time they can do so we shall receive it with the greatest interest.

15. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what operational schedules have been filed by Independent Air Travel Ltd., or its successor company, Blue Air Ltd., or Falcon Airways Ltd., for flights undertaken since May of this year.

Mr. Watkinson

Air transport operators are not required to submit prior details of charter flights. None of these companies is currently approved for the operation of scheduled associate services.

Mr. Beswick

The Minister is again deliberately evading my question. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have not stated in my Question anything about prior submission? Is he further aware that the recommendations of his own Department are that the operational schedules should be filed after the flight? This company, as he well knows, is operating but is not filing any schedules. What action has he taken?

Mr. Watkinson

The Question asked what operational schedules have been filed by Independent Air Travel Ltd. and some other companies. The answer I have given states that they are not required to submit prior details of charter flights. If the hon. Gentleman claims that they are not supplying these, that is certainly not within my information, but as he has made the request to me that I should look into it, I will do so at once.

Mr. Speaker rose

—

Mr. Beswick

On a point of order. If I provide any other information about this, may I have your protection, Sir, in not having that information described either as a vendetta or a feud?

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of order. I would protect the hon. Member in every proper case if he needed my protection, but he himself used pretty hard language about the Minister.