HC Deb 03 July 1959 vol 608 cc830-1
Miss Hornsby-Smith

I beg to move, in page 6, line 34, at the end to insert: (a) for all purposes other than the purposes of the Firemen's Pensions Scheme; and (b) if his employment is at a training centre maintained by a fire authority, also for the purposes of that Scheme. When this Measure was adopted in another place, my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor announced that discussions were taking place with the local authorities associations about the financial arrangements which will operate for pension purposes when firemen are seconded for temporary duty as instructors at training stations maintained by the Secretary of State under the arrangements proposed in Clause 10. He gave an undertaking then that this matter would be very fully considered and that we were alive to certain concern felt by members of the brigade in relation to the Clause

This Amendment is the outcome of those negotiations and it has the agreement of all the interested parties. The effect of the Amendment is to provide that while for all other purposes a fireman will remain a member of his brigade on secondment to any training institution maintained by the Secretary of State, the Clause will not apply so far as pensions are concerned, and that the present pension arrangements, under which the Secretary of State becomes the pension authority during the period of temporary duty, will continue unaltered.

Where firemen are informally loaned from one brigade to another for any purpose, the lending authority remains responsible for pensions. It is considered that this practice, which has worked satisfactorily, should be continued as respects firemen seconded for temporary duty as instructors at training institutions maintained by local fire authorities.

I think that this meets the general representations made on this matter and honours the undertaking given by my right hon. Friend in another place.

Mr. Hannan

May I ask the Joint Under-Secretary of State for Scotland whether what the hon. Lady has just announced applies to Scotland and why his name was not attached to the Amendment?

Mr. N. Macpherson

Yes, it does apply. There is no constitutional reason why my name should have been attached to the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 11 to 13 ordered to stand part of the Bill.