Apprentices (Hansard, 25 February 1959)

§ 34. Mr. Moss
asked the Minister of Labour when he expects to have available the number of persons admitted to apprenticeships and learnerships in 1958.

§ Mr. Wood
I hope to have this information in April.

§ Mr. Moss
Has the hon. Gentleman any evidence which would enable him to say now whether the rate of apprenticeship intake is being maintained? Is he aware that it is commonly suggested that at the present time the rate is not even being maintained?

§ Mr. Wood
I cannot say what the position is generally over the country. The figures for the last quarter of 1958 were collected at the end of January, and I am afraid that I have not seen a collation of them. However, I know that in some parts the situation has improved while in others it has declined. I will give the hon. Member the figures as soon as I can.

§ Mr. Fletcher-Cooke
As the matter of apprenticeship and learnership is becoming of urgent interest in all parts of industry and all quarters of the House, would my hon. Friend see whether it is possible to expedite the provision of statistics showing the progress in this matter so that we may have reports more readily than previously?

Mr. Lee
Would the hon. Gentleman agree that the intake of apprentices and learners in general has a direct relationship to the number of skilled men who are out of work and that until we tackle the problem from that end we shall not have any appreciable increase in the number of apprentices?

§ 35. Mr. Moss
asked the Minister of Labour what steps he will take to encourage recruitment of apprentices in the city of Birmingham, where the bulge in school-leavers is ahead of the national average by two years.

§ Mr. Wood
The Birmingham Youth Employment Committee is active in its encouragement to local industry to increase its intake of apprentices. The total number of school-leavers is expected to be at its highest in Birmingham in 1962, as in other parts of the country, though the number leaving at the age of 15 will probably be at its highest in 1959.

§ Mr. Moss
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that at a conference held in Birmingham it was suggested that not enough apprenticeships are available and that an apprenticeship training centre should be set up there and that financial assistance should be given to firms when they take on apprentices? Could the hon. Gentleman state his views on these two points of policy?

§ Mr. Wood
The hon. Member has a further Question on the Order Paper on the subject of apprenticeship training centres, and I will try to state my view there. With regard to assistance being given to industry to do the job, I have been considering ways and means by which that might be possible, but I am afraid that I have no statement to make.

§ 36. Mr. Moss
asked the Minister of Labour whether he will encourage the establishment of apprenticeship training centres in areas where the surplus of juvenile labour is greatest.

§ Mr. Wood
I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave the hon. Member on 28th January.

§ Mr. Moss
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on the first occasion when he replied to me on this subject he said that he had the matter under consideration and that on the second occasion he dismissed the point almost with contempt? Is he aware that in two critical articles published in The Times and The Times Educational Supplement this was one of the methods advocated for helping to achieve what the hon. Gentleman desires to achieve, which is to make the best use of the existing number of school-leavers and to provide them with the skill necessary to sustain modern industry?

§ Mr. Wood
I am sure that I never dismissed a question with contempt. I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving me a chance to answer the question which he intimated earlier he would ask me. As he will realise, this creates a dilemma. My view is that unless industry is prepared to train the apprentices, we shall not get them trained. If industry admits the need for training these apprentices, I think that the creation of apprenticeship training centres would merely deter other industries from doing it. If industry does not admit the need, it will be extremely difficult to get the apprentices trained in apprenticeship centres and accepted by industry afterwards.

§ Mr. Mikardo
Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that perhaps the worst waste of human resources occurs when bright boys leaving school are forced into dead-end jobs because they cannot be trained for skilled pursuits? Is he aware that the real problem lies in areas of small employers who are not big enough to run apprenticeship training schemes on their own? Would he and his right hon. Friend consider the possibility of running a pilot scheme in a suitable area for a Government apprenticeship centre along the lines of the Government training centres?

§ Mr. Wood
I agree entirely with the first two matters the hon. Gentleman put to me. I assure him that I am considering with my right hon. Friend how best we can help industry to do this job, which is an industrial job.