HC Deb 23 February 1959 vol 600 cc792-4
6. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Supply if he will state the civilian requirements which he expects will be met by the aircraft type ordered for Transport Command as a long-range freighter; and by what date it was estimated the civilian version would be available.

Mr. Aubrey Jones

The Britannic has been designed to meet both military and civil requirements and the military and civil versions will be closely similar. Being designed to carry bulky and heavy loads over medium and long distances, the aircraft should prove exceptionally economical in operation, and therefore of interest to civil operators. The civil version of the Britannic will be available at about the same time as the military version.

Mr. Beswick

Without in any way wishing to criticise this aircraft, which, no doubt, will be a fine machine and which we all hope will have a ready sale in the civilian market, may I ask whether the Minister does not agree that, operational requirements being met, the military orders should be used for advancing the technique and development of civil aircraft? Is he satisfied that as the result of the placing of this military order the aircraft industry in general will be more competitive in the civilian market?

Mr. Jones

I remember the hon. Member enjoining me some six months ago to do something to keep in being the design team of Short Brothers and Harland in Northern Ireland. I trust that he is not now running away from his own precept.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Who advised my right hon. Friend that this turbo-propeller driven aircraft will sell in the open market seven or eight years hence? Is he not of opinion that this aircraft should be pure jet if we are to compete with the Americans in the years to come?

Mr. Jones

There are protagonists of both the pure jet and the turbo-prop. The fact remains that for the critical distances in the carrying of freight, the turbo-prop shows a lower operating cost. In addition, one of the other advantages of this aircraft, if we are to break into the freighter market, is also its lower capital cost.

Mr. Beswick

Will the Minister now answer my question: does he really think that in four or five years' time the industry, including the firm concerned and its design team, will be more or will be less competitive as a result of producing this prop-jet aircraft?

Mr. Jones

The freighter market is growing. The use of freighters in the United States is increasing by some 20 per cent. a year and it is desirable that this country should do its utmost to enter this new market. It can do so only by having such an aircraft at the earliest possible moment. This was the most ready aircraft.

7. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Supply how many Britannic 3 aircraft have been ordered; and what is the estimated cost, including spares.

Mr. Aubrey Jones

Negotiations are still proceeding and in these circumstances I cannot give particulars.

Mr. Beswick

Would the Minister not agree that a substantial sum of money is involved? Since he is talking about the advantages of this aircraft in four or five years' time, does he appreciate that it will have to compete with aircraft like the Boeing 707, a freighter version of which will be available by that time? Again, will the Minister say whether he considers that the sum of money that will be involved by this order will place our industry in a position to compete with the American jet machines at that date?

Mr. Jones

If the hon. Member wishes to compare this aircraft with the Boeing 707, he will find that the ability of this aircraft to carry equipment is much greater. Its loadability, to use a horrible word, is much easier, and that is an important factor in its competitive power.