HC Deb 11 February 1959 vol 599 cc1288-94
Mr. Hannan

I beg to move, in page 29, line 32, at the end to insert: safety precautions to be observed in the installation of gas and electricity services". Matters which will be the subject of building standards regulations are outlined by the Government in the Fourth Schedule. By Clause 11 the Secretary of State is given power to appoint a Committee which he may consult. Some of the subjects were discussed in Committee. My hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson) and my hon. Friend the Member for East Stirlingshire (Mr. Woodburn) dealt with standards. I dealt with fire precautions. As yet there is no specific reference to the two matters which we mention in the Amendment, that is, gas and electricity services. I hope that the Government will see the value of an Amendment of this character. Developments are taking place in these two great industries month by month. It is right that in building standards regulations the new efficient methods of distribution of these two services should be incorporated.

Attention has been drawn recently in lurid and misleading reports—and I say this on the basis of knowledge which I have—to accidents taking place with gas. A high proportion of the accidents are due to causes other than genuine accidents. The gas authorities are perturbed that Press reports convey the impression that, because of some deficiency in their appliances or some leakage of their mains, negligence can be or is inferred and laid at their door. This is resented by them. The Scottish Gas Board goes a long way in trying to prevent these leakages and the use of imperfect appliances. The gas boards are national organisations under the scrutiny of public Acts of Parliament.

When headlines appear in the newspapers about some gassing tragedy, they draw the uninformed reader's attention to it and, If he does not read the context, he gets the wrong impression. An Amendment of this character, if not in these words, shall therefore be made in order to give the public greater confidence.

There is a side to this problem which is not usually disclosed. A high proportion of the deaths which take place are not due to deficiencies in the equipment but to the wilful acts of the persons who are found dead.

In discussing safety precautions, I should like to point out that a new type of gas cooker will be available in the near future. It is to be made available first to people aged 60 and over, because most of these tragedies take place in that age range. The cooker has a small pilot light which expands a metal and which then allows a greater flow of gas. It sometimes happens that a pot or a kettle boils over, extinguishing the light while there is the full flow of gas, but under this new system the gas will not continue to flow at the same rate but will revert to the small jet. This, therefore, acts as a safety valve. If there are further developments of this character in progress it is right that the Board's standard regulations should be brought fully up to date.

We discussed in Committee the problems of electriity supply. There are no rules or regulations which we can fashion which will prevent the householder, by negligence, ignorance or wilful act, from doing himself or his family or his home some harm. Everyone recognises that. In considering the provision of houses and building standards, are we sure that sufficient electrical points are being installed in houses?

I am told that two-thirds of the fires which start from electrical causes are due to the ignorant use by the householder of his electrical plugs or to his crossing wires, or to his using a greater electrical load than the system will take. If the householder has four appliances connected to one plug he is asking for trouble. This can easily happen in these days of television, radio, vacuum cleaners, irons end the full range of electrical equipment now being used in the home. Surely we should incorporate in the Bill a provision to provide a safeguard for people and property.

I hope that the Government will see the value of an Amendment of this character. I am quite sure that some of my hon. Friends will have something to say in support of it, and I conclude by again asking the Government to look at this question because of the frightful waste that is taking place and the risks that are run. Let me repeat that while we here can discuss regulations and lay down procedures, it needs the co-operation and the great care of parents particularly to safeguard their young people. Where perhaps our greater duty lies is to the elderly and the infirm living by themselves, and whatever modern facilities there are for safeguarding them against these horrors which occasionally happen. I think—and I think it will be the opinion of the House —that we should take all those steps to achieve that purpose.

Mr. G. M. Thomson

I beg to second the Amendment.

I should like to say a few words on the point which my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) has been making, on electrical equipment. I should like to know from the Government why they have not included a specific reference to electrical standards and also gas standards in the Bill, and why it has been left at this late stage for an Amendment to be moved by my hon. Friend. It is well-known that there have been very big changes in standards of electrical equipment over the last twenty-five years. In the house in which I live, which is modern and was built, presumably, according to the latest regulations in these matters, there are nothing but rather heavy 13-amp. 3-pin plugs, incorporating 'their own fuses, so that there is the maximum amount of safety. Indeed, I believe that the arrangement incorporates an actual switching mechanism in the wall socket itself.

We all know how, in older houses, it is quite common to have electric fires and other quite heavy electrical equipment run from two-pin plugs, so that there is a good deal of danger, if these plugs are overloaded, of the wires becoming heated and causing a fire. It is very important that we should insist on the very best standards in these things. It would also be a tremendous advantage, as a byproduct of good regulations, if we could get a measure of standardisation of electrical equipment. I suppose that there is no hon. Member of the House who has not had the experience of having to buy plugs for his house, finding that everything he has does not fit any socket in the house. If we could get uniform regulations it would be a great emancipation for the ordinary, ignorant, non-electrical householder. I think that it would be agreed that, as both electricity and gas contain considerable dangers of fire, building regulations in relation to their safety are extremely important. I am interested to know why the Government have not included specific reference to these matters in the Bill.

Mr. Woodburn

I should like to add a word to what has been said about safety precautions. We are dealing here mainly with building regulations, and the point which my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mir. Hannan) made about electrical points is very important. In many cases, one point is placed in a room, with no regard, perhaps, to where the bedside table will be or where the apparatus will be used. It might be on the other side of the room, so the wires have to be trailed across the room to the point, which is in the wrong place, and that in itself creates a danger, because if the wires are interfered with, or become worn, the heat which is generated may start a fire. If we could have the point situated where the apparatus is to be used, it would reduce the danger.

The other point relates to wiring. It is no use today, when we are asking people to make use of electricity, to give them a 5-amp. wire. Nowadays, if they can afford it, they will probably want an electric blanket. Also, they will want a light at the side of the bed, and they may, in addition, put an electric fire on the plug. As these things mount up, there is danger. If only one piece of apparatus is on at a time, there will be no danger, but with them all on at once, in the cold weather for instance, something may well go wrong. My own house is very heavily wired, but, the other night, when the weather was very cold, and all the rooms were occupied, the mains fuse went. I mean the electricity supplier's fuse, not our own house fuse. If these things are not given sufficient wiring to carry the modern load, all kinds of dangers may arise.

9.15 p.m.

I am all in favour of safety plugs and sockets, but when a person sets out to buy these three-pin plugs with their inbuilt fuses and all the apparatus connected with them—I notice it myself, and I do not consider myself a poor person—he finds that the expense is very great. He cannot easily buy many of them at 6s. 6d. or 7s. 6d. apiece for use in the rooms of his house, each one, perhaps, being merely for a small electric fire. The manufacturers have done wonderful work in providing safe plugs, but I feel that they really ought to devise things more suited to the pockets of the great mass of people who are bound to use them.

I should like to pay a tribute to the gas board in the South of Scotland. Recently, it has been going round to inspect all the old apparatus used by old-age pensioners, taking out all the unsafe equipment and putting in safe equipment for the old people to use. That is a most important function. I believe that the board has been doing it free of charge. A great service from the point of view of safety has been done, and a good deal more ought to be done.

I often wonder how it is, when gas points are placed at the fireside, exposed to a child's fingers, that more of them are not turned on and more disasters do not occur. It may be that more precautions ought to be taken in the design of gas cookers, not only so that the cooker itself will go back to delivering a small amount of gas only once the light has gone out, but also to provide keys or taps which cannot be touched by children who may turn on the gas by accident.

The Amendment suggests that this ought to be one of the matters in respect of which building standards regulations may be made. While I counsel caution so that we do not go beyond the bounds of practical housewifery, or forget such things as cost and normal practice, I suggest that it should be one of the duties of those responsible for the design and building of new houses to see that sufficient electric points are put in, that wiring adequate to carry a sufficient load is put in, and that provision is made for normal developments. If these things are done, that would be a step towards ensuring the safety of those who will occupy the houses.

Mr. J. N. Browne

I approach the Amendment in the same spirit as right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite. It is important and should be given proper weight.

The hon. Gentleman the Member for Maryhill (Mr. Hannan) will realise that the regulations are not confined to the subjects mentioned in the Schedule. By Clause 3 (I). my right hon. Friend may include such other matters … as appear to him … to be relevant. The Schedule is a pointer, but no more than that. The Amendment underlines, as does the Schedule, what I agree is a very important matter.

The Guest Report, in paragraph 165, attached special importance to the safety of electric installations. Following that, apart from the regulations, Clause 8 makes special provision for a certificate procedure. It would he quite in order to include electric points in the regulations. I also draw attention to the booklet on home safety which we have recently issued in Scotland, in which this matter was given great weight. A great deal of thought was devoted to exactly what recommendations we should make.

It is interesting to note that the Guest Committee did not consider that the same dangers arose from gas installations as from electrical installations. The hon. Member for Maryhill has rendered a service to everybody and to the gas industry by his speech. Of course, one must be worried about taps on the floor, but we can ensure, both under building regulations and through teaching the public, that safety taps are used.

I am advised that the Amendment is not aptly worded as it refers to precautions to be observed in the installation of gas and electricity services". It appears from the wording that the Amendment is more concerned with the act of installation than with the services when installed. Precautions during installation are important, of course, but they are more appropriate to the Building Operations Regulations than to the Building Standards Regulations.

I can assure the hon. Member that in the regulations my right hon. Friend will deal with gas and electricity safety precautions. I am advised that the Schedule as now worded covers the points the hon.

Member raised. Line 30 refers to "Fire precautions", line 41 to "Heating and artificial lighting", and line 42 to Services, installations, and ancillary equipment".

In conclusion, I hope that the hon. Member for Maryhill does not feel that we are brushing the Amendment aside. We agree that the points he raised are of vital importance, but my right hon. Friend assures him that he will do what he wants.

Mr. Woodburn

Would the words "fire precautions" cover precautions against people being gassed? Do not the words Matters in regard to which building standards regulations may be made imply that regulations may not be made regarding matters which are not mentioned? The Solicitor-General can tell us whether the legal position is that, when one specifies something, all matters not specified are automatically excluded.

Mr. Browne

That is not the case. The heading has not the force of law. Under Clause 3 (1) my right hon. Friend can include in regulations all such other matters as appear to him to be relevant. We must be guided by the Building Standards Advisory Committee. We have exactly the same wish as hon. Members opposite.

Mr. Hannan

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that one of the main purposes of the Bill, as appears from the Long Title, is to Make as respects Scotland new provision for safety, health and other matters … Could not the hon. Gentleman go a little further and say that at least some reference to gas precautions will be added to the Schedule?

Mr. Browne

By leave of the House, I think that I would be in order in saying that we shall consider this point again. I will not make any promises, because I had prepared my reply to the hon. Member most carefully.

Amendment negatived.