HC Deb 17 December 1959 vol 615 cc1628-9
11. Mr. G. M. Thomson

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why permission was refused for Dr. Hastings Banda to be visited in detention by Sir John Moffat.

Mr. J. Amery

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mrs. White) on 10th December.

Mr. Thomson

Is it not a bit stupid and shortsighted to treat Sir John Moffat—who can play a great reconciling role in the present difficulties—in this humiliating way, and to treat Dr. Banda, with whom the Government will finally have to negotiate on equal terms, as though he were a common criminal? What representations have been made by Her Majesty's Government to the Federal Government about this? Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that these are our political prisoners, imprisoned on our political decision, and is it not highly unsatisfactory that any arrangements for political discussions with these political prisoners should be in the hands of the Federal Government?

Mr. Amery

The hon. Gentleman's supplementary question has ranged fairly wide. It is not for me to say what representation should be made to the Federal Government; that is a matter for the Commonwealth Relations Office. As has been stated already, the question of visits to people detained in a Federal institution is a matter for the Federal authorities. The conditions attaching to visits are governed by prison regulations.

Mr. Callaghan

Does not the Under-Secretary realise what stupidity it is to refuse permission for political discussions to take place between these two gentlemen? Do not the Government realise that they are really convicting themselves in the minds of all honourable people unless they allow persons of the competence and character of Sir John Moffat to discuss with Dr. Hastings Banda what is to be the future of the territory?

Mr. Amery

The hon. Gentleman is, of course, entitled to his own opinion in these matters, but he must remember that one of the objects of detention is to take the person so detained out of current political circulation. and it is very difficult to make an exception for one visitor and not for others.

Mr. Callaghan

Does not the Under-Secretary want Dr. Hastings Banda and other Africans to be able to express their views in front of the Commission that the Government have now set up? How will Dr. Banda be able to do this if he is denied access to those with whom he can take counsel? Could not the Government get themselves out of their own difficulty by releasing him forthwith?

Mr. Amery

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is a completely different question. Having private conversations when in detention with private individuals and giving evidence before a Commission are entirely different things. The second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question deals with a matter that cannot be decided until the Governor thinks that conditions are suitable for Dr. Banda's release.