HC Deb 14 December 1959 vol 615 cc1037-9
14 and 15. Dr. Stross

asked the Minister of Health (1) whether he is aware that many hospitals are understaffed in their pharmacies, and that recruitment of experienced staff is becoming continually more difficult; whether he will give an estimate of the present shortage for the service as a whole; and what action he is taking to find the staff needed;

(2) how many hospitals in the London area are unable, because of shortage of pharmacists, to dispense to their patients, and therefore use EC 10 forms; and what is the estimated extra cost to the service following from this.

Mr. Walker-Smith

Though no precise information is available, I am aware that there is a shortage of pharmacists generally and that this affects some hospitals. Advice was recently given to hospital authorities on the organisation of hospital pharmaceutical services, with a view to making the best use of available trained manpower. A salary claim for hospital pharmacists is now being considered by the Pharmaceutical Whitley Council.

Forty-one hospitals and two clinics in the London area are currently authorised to use forms E.C. 10 (HP) because of shortage of staff. The extra cost involved is not known.

Dr. Stross

Is the Minister aware that a great teaching hospital, the Middlesex, had to go on to this procedure about a week ago due to lack of staff and that it is estimated that about £13,000 a year would be involved as an extra charge on the Health Service as a result? Is he further aware that, whilst appreciating that the question of payments to pharmacists is now being discussed, this seems to be the root of the problem and that the hospital service cannot easily compete with the payments made outside to people of similar qualifications? In view of this, will he not accept from us all that the right thing to do is to see that the hospital service gets the best possible staff, because that will be the most economic way of giving service to the public?

Mr. Walker-Smith

I appreciate the point made by the hon. Gentleman, but I am sure he will understand that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the salary question while the claim is under negotiation. There has been a slow but gradual improvement over the years in the number of pharmacists, and there has been a more substantial increase in the number of assistants in dispensing.

Dr. Stross

The numbers have increased but, by and large, they tend to be in the lower ranks and the female staff tend not to stay for as long as men who assume greater responsibility. Is not the serious problem that experienced staff are becoming more difficult to obtain each year?

Mr. Walker-Smith

I tried to improve the distribution of the pharmaceutical staff, and in this I had the advantage of the Report of the Sub-Committee of the Standing Pharmaceutical Advisory Committee, issued last year, under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Sir H. Linstead).

Sir H. Linstead

Would my right hon. and learned Friend not agree that part of the difficulty has probably arisen through a virtual deadlock in the negotiations of the Whitley Council? Will he not make inquiries to see whether that deadlock can be broken?

Mr. Walker-Smith

So far as I know, the negotiations in the Whitley Council are proceeding appropriately. I will certainly have regard to what my hon. Friend has suggested, but I do not think there is any reason to apprehend what he has in mind.

Dr. Summerskill

Will the Minister explain why this shortage has been allowed to go on? We have had a shortage of pharmacists, a shortage of radiologists and of practising midwives. When the position becomes acute, the Minister has to adopt methods of this kind and issue EC 10 forms, which will be a most costly answer. Finally, he has to say that we will give these people more, and the Whitley machine begins to turn. Why is it that, in all these cases, the Ministry does not anticipate these shortages?

Mr. Walker-Smith

We have a considerably expanding service and, over all, there are many demands for skilled manpower. All these things provoke, in some context, a shortage of available manpower, but we do our best within the context of the material available, our responsibility for public money and so on to ensure that the service is staffed as it should be.