HC Deb 09 December 1959 vol 615 cc685-6

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

Mr. Jay

I want to draw attention to the last definition in this Clause— 'undertaking' means any trade or business, or any other activity providing employment". Earlier, when we were arguing that for the purpose of the Bill "undertaking" would include a form of direct employment given by a Government Department, such as the Royal Dockyards or a Royal Ordnance factory, the right hon. Gentleman made a rather flippant reply when I pointed out that this definition—" and any other activity providing employment"— could cover such employment. He said that in his opinion Government Departments were not associated with activity and therefore they would not be covered. I hope that that was a flippant reply and not a Freudian slip expressing his own idea of the way in which his Department will carry out these powers.

May we take it that under this definition an undertaking would cover a local authority, certainly in any of its activities which provide employment? In other words, I refer to the trading activities and probably other activities of the local authority.

I ask this because if hon. Members turn to Clause 4—I will not discuss it but merely relate it to this definition—they will see that the D.A.T.A.C. powers of making grants and loans, mainly loans, are powers of making them to undertakings. I therefore suggest—and I think that this must be correct—that if we take this definition together with Clause 4, the Minister is taking power—1 certainly hope that he is—under the Bill to use D.A.T.A.C.. if there are suitable and appropriate cases, for making grants or loans to local authority undertakings. This was not possible under the 1958 Act. The Minister of State declined an Amendment to that Act to include local authorities among the possible recipients of D.A.T.A.C. loans I think that the phrase then was "track-or business". I hope that in view of this definition that will now be possible.

Mr. Maudling

Possibly the sidenote to Clause 4 is a little misleading, because it will be seen from the text of the Clause and of Clause 3 that the grants are to be made not to the undertakings but to persons carrying on the undertakings. I understand that local authorities are legal persons, and that is where they are covered.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.