HC Deb 09 December 1959 vol 615 cc674-6

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

Mr. Jay

Is it necessary in this legislation to have all the details which are specified in this Clause? I have the gravest doubts about whether there is any necessity for the President of the Board of Trade to insert a reference to the constitution and working of the Management Corporations. However, we have passed from that subject and I must confine myself to this Clause. 11.15p.m.

If we look at the Clause, we are told that the accounts shall be kept in a certain fashion; that there shall be auditors to deal with the accounts; that no person shall be qualified to be an auditor unless he is a member of certain bodies, and that the reports and accounts shall be made out and delivered in a certain way. Surely it cannot be necessary to put all this into an Act of Parliament. It seems to be legislation run mad. The proper way to frame an Act of Parliament is to put in the very minimum which has to be in statutory form.

If we examine the provisions of the 1945 Act, we see that instead of all these Clauses we merely have the words: The Board of Trade may with the consent of the Treasury make loans to trading or industrial estate companies … That gives all the necessary legislative sanction for the operation of the industrial estate companies which the President of the Board of Trade has told us, in the last few minutes, have acted with great success and deserve every praise for the way in which they have done their job.

It puzzles me that in order to do what is, in effect, the same job—admittedly on a different scale, and perhaps in other parts of the country—whereas for 15 years it has been perfectly satisfactory to act under two lines of the necessary Statute, we now have several Clauses, which go into every detail, except to say how they shall stick stamps on envelopes and at what hour they are to arrive at the office on Monday mornings. Even if we cannot streamline the Bill any more we would like to be told by the right hon. Gentleman why there is a need for all this detail. Is it too late for him to consider, simply in the interests of legislative efficiency, whether he can slim this Clause a little before we part with it?

Mr. Maudling

I do not like long Clauses, for obvious reasons. The purpose of the Clause is to make sure that the money voted by Parliament under Clause 4 to the Board of Trade, and the money spent by the Board of Trade in defraying the expenses of the corporations shall be properly accounted for. There is provision for the accounts having to be submitted to the Comp- troller and Auditor General and laid before Parliament, together with the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. This is all in the process of Parliamentary control.

I cannot answer the right hon. Gentleman's point about the 1945 Act, but I am informed that the accounting provisions of the Bill follow the lines of those in regard to the corporations established by Statute and are dependent upon moneys voted by Parliament. We are following common form here. Whether the common form is as streamlined as it should be I am not arguing, but the purpose is to provide for proper Parliamentary accountability, and to carry it out in the normal way.

Mr. Jay

But in the other case were not public moneys voted and lent on a considerable scale by the Treasury, via the Board of Trade, to the industrial estates companies over the years? This elaborate machinery was not necessary then, and it is a little puzzling—if the former method has proved satisfactory for 15 years—to understand why it has to be completely revolutionised now.

Mr. Maudling

It puzzles me. I will find out. If, as a result of the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion, we can make the provisions shorter, so much the better.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.