HC Deb 08 April 1959 vol 603 cc179-80
24. Mr. Swingler

asked the Minister of Labour what further approach has been made by the National Union of Bank Employees to his Department about the establishment of national negotiating machinery for the banking industry; and what action he will take.

The Minister of Labour and National Service (Mr. Iain Macleod)

The General Secretary of the union wrote to me about this on 13th February and my officers have since discussed the present situation with him and his colleagues. It was explained to them that in existing circumstances there is little scope for any action on my part.

Mr. Swingler

Is not it a fact that some developments have taken place in this situation, not in England and Wales, but in Scotland? Could not the Minister now consider some new initiative or mediation or conciliation by his Department in order to end this ridiculous situation of the refusal of the bank employers of England and Wales to recognise a trade union which has obviously established its right to be recognised?

Mr. Macleod

As regards England and Wales anyway, I do not think any major change has taken place since negotiations broke down in May, 1956. My continuing interest in this matter is shown by my Answer to this Question. We discussed the matter as recently as a fortnight ago, but I do not think that at this moment any initiative would be proper for me.

Mr. Lee

Would the Minister agree that his predecessor in office, now Lord Monckton, has great influence in this sphere, and would the right hon. Gentleman remind him that when Minister of Labour he consistently advocated the setting up of machinery of this type and the recognition of the need for trade unions and employers to negotiate on this matter?

Mr. Macleod

That may be so, but in this case I have no intention of reminding my noble Friend of what he may have said previously, for a reason which the hon. Gentleman knows well: that for me to take sides in this matter would be for the Minister of Labour to try to indicate what bodies should be recognised by the other parties to negotiations. All Ministers of Labour have always refused to do that, and I am certain that it is the right decision.

Mr. Robens

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider once again having a discussion with the chairmen of the banks on this matter? He will be aware that the staff associations, to which so many of the banks give their first allegiance, cover only a part of the bank workers, whereas the National Union of Bank Employees covers a large proportion of bank workers. They should have some national negotiating machinery, so would the Minister call together the chairmen of the banks for a discussion on this matter?

Mr. Macleod

No, Sir, because that would seem to me to tread on ground where no Minister of Labour should intervene. The object of my intervention clearly would be to persuade the chairmen to recognise one particular body. The recognition of that body must be for the employers themselves. Although, as I said in my original Answer, I retain a continuing interest in this matter, and if there is any new development I will pursue it, there has, in fact, been no major new development over the past three years.