HC Deb 24 November 1958 vol 596 cc3-4
5 and 17. Mr. A. Roberts

asked the Paymaster-General (1) when a decision can now be expected concerning pensions for retired mineworkers not covered by the National Coal Board pensions scheme;

(2) if he will make a statement on the question of retired miners who are not in receipt of the National Coal Board retired mineworkers' pension.

Mr. Maudling

The union proposed that pensions should be paid out of the mineworkers' pension scheme to miners who had retired before the inception of the scheme. My noble Friend has the greatest sympathy with the union's objective, but after the most careful consideration he has been unable to find any way in which this could be achieved without breach of pensions principles involving inevitable and costly repercussions. My noble Friend has accordingly, and with very real regret, had to confirm that he is unable to approve the union's proposal.

Mr. Roberts

Is the Paymaster-General aware that his reply will cause great dissatisfaction throughout the coalfields? Is he also aware that these men have made some contribution, and does he not agree that some ways could be found of paying a gratuity or a pension for services rendered in the same way as already the National Coal Board finds ways and means of getting round the matter when appointing officials to higher office?

Mr. Maudling

I say once again that my noble Friend appreciates very much the motives underlying this matter, but after a most careful examination of all involved, he has been unable to approve the proposal put forward by the unions.

Mr. Neal

Is the Paymaster-General aware that, following the very favourable actuarial report on this fund, both participants in the scheme, the National Union of Mineworkers and the National Coal Board, were willing for these retired miners to be included? Why should not the Minister find some means of bringing in these men when both parties are agreed?

Mr. Maudling

There are a number of reasons. I do not accept that there are ample funds available in the scheme. I understand that the Board was willing to agree on the assumption that no extra cost fell upon it. I am not sure that that is so. Such calculations as I have available show that that condition is by no means certain of fulfilment.

Mr. Shinwell

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this money does not belong to the Government? It is raised by the people employed in the industry. By what right do the Government interfere with the distribution of funds made available in the industry? What have the Government got to do with this?

Mr. Maudling

The Government have statutory responsibilities in this field, but I must point out that these moneys belong to certain trustees who hold them on behalf of the members of the existing fund. If these trustees were to pay the moneys out to other people then they might well be liable to legal action.

Mr. Roberts

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

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