NUCLEAR TESTS

HC Deb 19 May 1958 vol 588 cc863-8

5. Mr. Swingler

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reports he has received from Her Majesty's diplomatic representatives in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics since the Soviet Foreign Minister's announcement of the suspension of nuclear tests.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I do not know what the hon. Member has in mind. I regularly receive reports on a variety of subjects; it is not customary to disclose their contents.

Mr. Swingler

Can the Foreign Secretary now say whether he regards the announcement by the Soviet Foreign Minister that the Soviet Government were suspending nuclear tests as a genuine move, or whether he still regards it as mere propaganda? Do the reports of the British diplomatic representatives in Moscow indicate that it was a genuine move to try to relax tension?

Mr. Lloyd

The hon. Gentleman's Question was a very vague one and my reply, therefore, was very vague. He is now asking about a specific matter with regard to the Soviet announcement about the suspension of tests. I think that one factor in the Soviet announcement is that it comes immediately at the end of a very large and accelerated series of test explosions. I think that that must be taken into account. On the other hand, I am perfectly prepared to accept it as a genuine offer to suspend tests.

Mr. Bevan

What is the use of the right hon. and learned Gentleman repeating that statement over and over again, when he knows very well that last year the Soviet Union did ask that there should be agreement to hold no further tests after the beginning of this year; and, therefore, that this series of Soviet tests would not have been held if the British and American Governments had then accepted the Soviet offer?

Mr. Lloyd

The question whether one should accept cessation of tests by itself is a matter upon which the views of Her Majesty's Government are well known. We have constantly said that that should be associated with other measures of disarmament. I was asked about a particular statement.

Mr. Bevan

Is not the Foreign Secretary misleading public opinion, or attempting to mislead public opinion—he is obviously failing—when he says that the Soviet suspension of tests should be considered in the light of the fact that it followed a whole series of Soviet tests, when, in fact, he was invited to suspend tests from the beginning of the year?

Mr. Lloyd

I was dealing with the unilateral statement. I was asked about a report about that, and I said that we should take into account the circumstances in which it was made. Had it been made before the Soviet tests were made—[HON. MEMBERS: "It was."]—it would have been a different matter.

Colonel Beamish

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that a great many people on both sides of the House regard the mere suspension of tests as being of very little importance indeed, but that what might be really important is whether we can get technical working parties set up to study a system of international control and inspection? Is the Soviet Union making any progress in that respect?

Mr. Lloyd

There are two questions here. In regard to the second part of my hon. and gallant Friend's supplementary question, I maintain that it is of the greatest importance to get a cessation of tests associated with the cut-off in the manufacture of fissile materials and also with some measure of conventional disarmament.

Mr. Swingler

Is the Foreign Secretary aware that a great many people in this country believe we should respond to the Soviet invitation?

11. Mr. Healey

asked the secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he has taken to organise technical study by experts of the control and supervision of nuclear tests in co-operation with the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

Her Majesty's Government have repeatedly proposed that experts from the countries concerned should meet and study a control system for supervising the suspension of nuclear tests. I made the suggestion on behalf of the Western Powers in a speech on 2nd July of last year in the United Nations Disarmament Sub-Committee. It has been reiterated since, the last occasion being the Prime Minister's letter of 21st April to Mr. Khrushchev.

Mr. Healey

Is the Foreign Secretary aware that the House is fully informed of this fact but that a fortnight ago the Soviet Government declared their readiness to participate in such a study? Does he not agree that the confused and dilatory response of the Government to the Soviet initiative may be regarded all over the world as evidence that Britain does not desire an agreement on this issue?

Mr. Lloyd

The hon. Gentleman should be fair. We are willing to take part in such a study, but the Soviet Government have not yet indicated whether they are willing to take part with us in such a study.

Mr. Bevan

If this study and supervision of nuclear tests reach a satisfactory conclusion, will Her Majesty's Government then be prepared to suspend tests despite the fact that a wider disarmament agreement might not have been reached?

Mr. Lloyd

That is a matter for future consideration. We shall continue to try to get wider agreement.

As for further developments, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said that he thinks this is an appropriate matter for discussion at the summit talks.

Mr. Bevan

Will the Foreign Secretary answer my question? In the event of these present studies reaching such a conclusion that, in fact, the suspension of tests can be satisfactorily supervised, will Her Majesty's Government then be prepared to suspend tests despite the fact that in the meantime a wider disarmament agreement would not have been reached?

Mr. Lloyd

I have made it clear that that is not our position. We are not prepared unilaterally to accept this. But I think that if the experts have agreed upon a suitable system, that is certainly a step forward, and it will make it much easier to bring in as part of a wider agreement.

13. Mr. Healey

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent it is now Her Majesty's Government's policy to seek a cessation of nuclear tests separately from a cessation of the production of atomic weapons.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

Her Majesty's Government maintain their view that the cessation of nuclear tests should not be separated from the general question of disarmament, including the cessation of production of fissile material for weapons purposes.

Mr. Healey

Is the Foreign Secretary aware that now that the American Government are moving in the direction of seeking an agreement separately on the cessation of nuclear tests, opinion in this country and in the world as a whole will be appalled to find that the British Government are now a major obstacle to a step which, if carried out, would not only save tens of thousands of lives but would also prevent the distribution of atomic weapons to an infinite number of sovereign States?

Mr. Lloyd

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is not correct. As to the second part, I have just stated our position.

Mr. Bevan

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that this is a matter of the most serious moment and that there is conclusive evidence that there is an overwhelming majority of opinion in this country against the Government's decision—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Well, try it. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman not aware that there are three major considerations in favour of this proposition being accepted—first, that if the tests were suspended for a period of time and good will were shown on all sides the international climate would be enormously improved; secondly, that further poisoning of the atmosphere would cease; and that thirdly, other nations would not obtain nuclear weapons? Therefore, very grave dangers might be avoided. Why do not the Government listen to ordinary commonsense in these matters?

Mr. Lloyd

To select one particular subject which is not disarmament in itself and then seek to lead people to believe that great steps could be made would be misleading public opinion. What we have to consider is, first of all, the defence interests of this country which are affected by this matter—the development of our own nuclear weapons. Until we get a balanced agreement which will to some extent cover conventional as well as nuclear disarmament and also the beginning of real nuclear disarmament—which is the cut-off in the manufacture of fissile material—we should be running great risks in accepting any such proposal.

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper:

24. Mr. ZILLIACUS

To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether, in view of the Soviet Government's acceptance of the proposal to appoint experts to work out a system to monitor hydrogen bomb tests, he will now agree to conclude an agreement banning tests as soon as this system is applied.

Mr. Zilliacus

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The last word in my Question as printed is a misreading of my handwriting, for which I apologise. It should be "completed" and not "applied".

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I do not think that affects my Answer, which is "No, Sir."

Mr. Zilliacus

I admit that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has already replied to this question earlier in answering supplementaries, but will he not reflect that the United States Government themselves are now contemplating suspension of tests and, according to the Observer, this Government are asking them to delay this announcement? Are we not in danger of appearing before the world as nothing better than hydrogen-bomb Herods?

Mr. Lloyd

I really must deny categorically what the hon. Gentleman has just said, either about the contemplation of the United States Government or about our attempting to prevent them to come to any particular decision. I think that I have already dealt with the general aspects of the matter.