HC Deb 13 May 1958 vol 588 cc233-42

4.5 p.m.

Mr. Barnett Janner (Leicester, North-West)

; I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to enable the widow of a person dying intestate or other member of his family residing with him in a dwellinghouse at the lime of his death, to retain possession of that dwelling-house where that person had become a tenant of the dwelling-house by virtue of paragraph (g) of subsection (1) of section twelve of the Increase of Rent and Mortgage Interest (Restriction) Act, 1920. This is a matter of considerable importance to those at present under the fear of eviction in consequence of the prevailing conditions. During the last thirty-eight years the Section of the 1920 Act to which I refer in the Motion, has been in force, and it has enabled the widow of a deceased person and, if there is no widow, another member of the family to remain in possession of the home of that family on the death of the person who was the statutory tenant at that time.

I venture to say that fear stalks in many homes in this land today, that people are agitated and frightened about their future and that anything which can be done to alleviate that terrible anxiety should be done as speedily as possible. As I have said on a number of occasions here, the home of a family is of considerable value to it, and that was why, about thirty-eight years ago, that proviso was inserted into the Act whereby the definition of a tenant included persons who survived that tenant and who had been living in the family of that tenant at the time of his death.

The tragedy is that as the years have gone on, many of those who were the first survivors of the statutory tenant have themselves died, leaving the family with no protection, except one. There is a big distinction between the position that prevailed before the 1957 Act and that which prevails today, and that is why I have introduced this Motion. I have done it on previous occasions in respect of the old Acts, but the situation is even more difficult today for the family because of the provisions of the 1957 Act.

The difference is that when a person who was not a member of the family tenanted a house after the death of a husband or mother who had become a tenant by virtue of the Section I have referred to, the landlord was not in a position to charge more for the house in rent, because it remained controlled. Consequently, although there was already a great hardship, some families were protected as if the landlord was unable to sell the house. He could not let it at a higher rent nor could he evict a subsequent tenant.

That is very different from the present position, resulting from the 1957 Act, which provides automatic decontrol. The only thing which is decontrolled is the current tenancy. When the tenant leaves the house—this is not known by most people and it applies whether the house is above or below the rateable value of £40 in London and £30 in the provinces—the rent which can then be charged is that of a decontrolled house.

Even if a member of a family is living with a tenant and has been doing so for many years, when the tenant dies—unless that person is the first successor—he is not protected himself and the house becomes unprotected. That is a serious situation. I am sure that every hon. Member has had the question put to him at one time or another. It is not a matter of party politics. Any hon. Member who has been in the House for any length of time must have received communications from constituents such as. "What shall I do? My mother has died and I no longer have protection."

It is not only a question of houseless-ness, but a question of homelessness, particularly where a family has built up its existence within the walls of one house. It is extremely difficult for that family and is certainly not in the social interests of the country that the family should be spread all over the place and should regard itself as many different units. Only a day or so ago a case was brought to my notice in which a daughter had been living in a house for many years, attending her ailing mother. When her mother died, recently, this woman had no protection whatever over the home which had been hers, in which her parents had built a family life and in which every stick and stone meant something to her.

The result is that this woman has to leave. She has not only to seek a new life, but she has to seek a new life in a new home atmosphere, because her home goes as well as the house. Surely nobody wants that situation. I therefore appeal to the Minister to think again about this matter. Perhaps, with the full approval of the Government, he himself will take action to introduce a Bill to deal with this very tragic situation.

I have said that the Acts have been in existence for about forty years, and that the situation has become increasingly difficult. The House will remember that the only person who could take over the tenancy was the widow of the original owner or a member of the family living there. In many cases the tenant died and then, within a few days or months, his widow died. The result was that the tenancy was no longer in existence. Obviously, this is now becoming a matter of everyday concern. The House should be made aware of the fact that this is a very serious problem.

We have vacant houses, but we must not misunderstand the position. Many of these houses have become vacant because the relative of the deceased tenant not being protected has had to leave. Throughout the country there has been increasing difficulty, with anxiety growing up and even suicides among some of those who are deprived of their homes. It is in this situation that I ask the House to give me leave to introduce the Bill. Its terms may not meet with the approval of everybody, in every sense, but that point can be dealt with later.

4.17 p.m.

Mr. Robert Jenkins (Dulwich)

As the House knows, I have been involved in attempting to obtain some relief for those threatened with eviction in October this year, but during the Committee stage of the Rent Act I voted against an Amendment on the same lines as that proposed in the Bill which the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West (Mr. Janner) seeks leave to introduce. I say that to clear from the minds of hon. Members any thoughts they may have that I have in any way gone back upon my attitude to the original Rent Bill.

I would ask hon. Members to realise that any critical remarks I make about the Bill are in no way directed against the hon. Member for Leicester, North-West. Everybody who knows anything about local government, and the way in which the hon. Member acts in his constituency and elsewhere, knows that he has very much at heart the good of people who are in housing difficulties. But it is pertinent to say that the hon. Member had his chance of getting a move on with the proposals contained in his Bill between 1931 and 1935, when he was the Liberal Member for Stepney. As far as I remember, he did nothing about it.

Mr. Walter Edwards (Stepney)

On a point of order. Is it in order for the hon Member to speak of my hon. Friend as being the hon. Member for Stepney from 1931 to 1935 when there was no such constituency in those days?

Mr. Speaker

It may not be accurate, but it is in order.

Mr. Jenkins

Perhaps I may substitute "Whitechapel" for "Stepney." I think that the hon. Member represented the Whitechapel division of Stepney. From 1945 to 1951 the hon. Member sat for his present constituency, and he then had a wonderful opportunity, for six years, of trying to persuade his right hon. Friend the Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan), who was then Minister of Health, and his right hon. Friend the Member for Poplar (Mr. Key), to do something about it. If, for thirty-eight years, no attempt has been made by the party opposite, and the hon. Member in particular——

Mr. Janner

The hon. Member should know that that is not correct. I have pressed this issue for years. There is a difference today, as I tried to explain.

Mr. Jenkins

If, with the enormous majority which the party opposite had during those years from 1945 to 1951, they did not think it necessary to put through a Bill of this kind, why should it be put through now?

Apart from the fact that nothing has been done about this problem for thirty-eight years, there are other reasons why I oppose the Motion. If one analyses the speech of the hon. Member one finds that he has not adduced any new facts. He did not deal with the subject on the grounds of equity, or suggest that there should be equity between the tenant and the landlord. He has not mentioned any new adverse change of circumstances. On the contrary, the embarrassment is much less now than it was in 1945–51, owing to the fact that the Conservative Party has taken an intelligent and progressive interest in housing since coming to power. Further, no one can deny that the Rent Act is at present causing more accommodation to become available.

If my right hon. Friend had not brought in his amending Measure, and there had been the possibility of large-scale evictions taking place in October, there would have been something to say in favour of the hon. Gentleman's proposed Bill. But with the new evidence that has come to my right hon. Friend over the months, and with the new facts which have been adduced, my right hon. Friend has seen fit to bring in an amending Measure The evictions which would have taken place under the original Bill will not now take place, and the status quo has been maintained.

Mr. Edward Short (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Central)

The sort of evictions which the hon. Member is talking about are not those to which my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, North-West (Mr. Janner) has referred. The Title of the proposed Bill shows that they are in an entirely different category. Is the hon. Member in order in making this point, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker

It is difficult for me to say whether or not the two matters are connected. I saw nothing obviously out of order in what the hon. Member was saying.

Mr. Jenkins

No one who has thought about the matter at all would deny that rent restriction has to be done away with slowly. If the Bill were accepted it would increase rent restriction, whereas everybody is agreed that it must eventually be disposed of completely.

The only argument put forward by the hon. Member was that the Rent Act had made things far more difficult for people. That was his principal reason for seeking to bring in the Bill. He said that the landlord could now get double or treble the rent once he had got possession. That argument is fallacious, because the Rent Act has reduced rather than increased the risk of tenants' successors being turned out, since there is no longer the same incentive for the landlord or owner to insist upon vacant possession. On the contrary, I have found that landlords in my constituency, where they have the right to obtain eviction orders in respect of the successors to the persons to whom the tenancies first passed, are more anxious to allow the present relatives to stay, at increased rents—because they can get them—than turn them out and sell their properties.

During the past weeks there have been occasions when I and some of my hon. Friends have abstained from voting against these Ten Minutes Rule Bills, and even occasions when we would have liked to vote with the Opposition. But once the Minister conceded a very vital principle hon. Members opposite should have ceased to pinprick him. This should be the last of this series of Ten Minutes Rule Bills. The Minister has conceded a vital point of principle, and the vendetta against him should now come to an end. The Bill appeals to the emotions, to some extent, and to that extent I am with the hon. Member—but it ignores the inaction of the party opposite in the past, and provides no sound reason why a thirty-eight-year-old Act should be amended.

The hon. Member for Leicester, North-West has been sniping at the Minister very pleasantly this afternoon, but his argument is really that the hereditary principle should be perpetuated. It may be felt right that a tenancy should go on for ever, being handed down to relatives, but if we alter an Act which nobody has attempted to alter until now, and if we perpetuate the hereditary principle, we are doing damage to all the Housing Acts. To all those involved—and there is a considerable number of them—I would say that the best thing they can do is to leave the matter as it is and to stop sniping at the Minister, who is doing a first-class job in housing our people.

Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 12 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of Public Business):—

The House divided: Ayes 200, Noes 254.

Division No. 120.] AYES [4.30 p.m.
Ainsley, J. W. Hall, Rt. Hn. Glenvil (Colne Valley) Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.)
Albu, A. H. Hamilton, W. W. Paton, John
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Hannan, W. Pearson, A.
Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) Harrison, J. (Nottingham, N.) Peart, T. F.
Awbery, S. S. Hastings, S. Pentland, N.
Bacon, Miss Alice Hayman, F. H. Popplewell, E.
Balfour, A. Henderson, Rt. Hn. A. (Rwly Regis) Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. Herbison, Miss M. Price, Philips (Gloucestershire, W.)
Bence, C. R. (Dunbartonshire, E.) Holman, P. Probert, A. R.
Beswick, Frank Holmes, Horace Proctor, W. T.
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Holt, A. F. Rankin, John
Blackburn, F. Houghton, Douglas Redhead, E. C.
Boardman, H. Howell, Charles (Perry Barr) Reeves, J.
Bonham Carter, Mark Howell, Denis (All Saints) Reid, William
Bottomley, Rt. Hon. A. G. Hoy, J. H. Rhodes, H.
Bowden, H. W. (Leicester, S. W.) Hubbard, T. F. Robens, Rt. Hon. A
Bowen, E. R. (Cardigan) Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Bowles, F. G. Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.)
Brockway, A. F. Hunter, A. E. Rogers, George (Kensington, N.)
Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Ross, William
Brown, Thomas (Ince) Isaacs, Rt. Hon. G. A. Royle, C.
Burke, W. A. Jeger, George (Goole) Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E.
Burton, Miss F. E. Jeger, Mrs. Lena (Holbn & St. Pncs, S.) Short, E. W.
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.) Jenkins, Roy (Stechford) Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Johnston, Douglas (Paisley) Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Castle, Mrs. B. A. Jones, Rt. Hon. A. Creech (Wakefield) Simmons, C. J. (Brierley Hill)
Champion, A. J. Jones, David (The Hartlepools) Slater, Mrs. H. (Stoke, N.)
Chapman, W. D. Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Slater, J. (Sedgefield)
Chetwynd, G. R. Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Sorensen, R. W.
Clunie, J. Kenyon, C. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Coldrick, W. Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Sparks, J. A.
Collick, P. H. (Birkenhead) King, Dr. H. M. Stewart, Michael (Fulham)
Collins, V. J. (Shoredith & Finsbury) Lawson, G. M. Stones, W. (Consett)
Cove, W. G. Lee, Frederick (Newton) Strachey, Rt. Hon. J.
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Lee, Miss Jennie (Cannock) Sylvester, G. O.
Crossman, R. H. S. Upton, Marcus Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Cullen, Mrs. A. Logan, D. G. Taylor, John (West Lothian)
Darling, George (Hillsborough) Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Thomas, George (Cardiff)
Davies, Ernest (Enfield, E.) McAlister, Mrs. Mary Thomas, Iorwerth (Rhondda, W.)
Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) MacDermot, Niall Thomson, George (Dundee, E.)
Deer, G. McGhee, H. G. Timmons, J.
de Freitas, Geoffrey McInnes, J. Tomney, F.
Diamond, John McKay, John (Wallsend) Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn
Dugdale, Rt. Hn. John (W. Brmwch) McLeavy, Frank Viant, S. P.
Dye, S. MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) Wade, D. W.
Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Watkins, T. E.
Edwards, Rt. Hon. John (Brighouse) Mahon, Simon Weitzman, D.
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Wells, Percy (Faversham)
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. West, D. G.
Edwards, W. J. (Stepney) Mason, Roy Wheeldon, W. E.
Evans, Albert (Islington, S. W.) Messer, Sir F. White, Mrs. Eirene (E. Flint)
Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) Mitchison, G. R. Wigg, George
Fernyhough, E. Monslow, W. Wilkins, W. A.
Finch, H. J. Moody, A. S. Willey, Frederick
Fletcher, Eric Morrison, Rt. Hn. Herbert (Lewis'm, S.) Williams, David (Neath)
Foot, D. M. Mort, D. L. Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Ab'tillery)
Forman, J. C. Moss, R. Williams, Rt. Hon. T. (Don Valley)
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Moyle, A. Willis, Eustace (Edinburgh, E.)
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Mulley, F. W. Winterbottom, Richard
George, Lady Megan Lloyd (Car'then) Neal, Harold (Bolsover) Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Gibson, C. W. Oliver, G. H. Woof, R. E.
Grenfell, Rt. Hon. D. R. Oswald, T. Yates, V. (Ladywood)
Grey, C. F. Owen, W. J. Younger, Rt, Hon. K.
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Padley, W. E. Zilliacus, K.
Griffiths, William (Exchange) Paget, R. T.
Grimond, J. Paling, Rt. Hon. W. (Dearne Valley) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Hale, Leslie Palmer, A. M. F. Mr. H. Hynd and Mr. Janner.
NOES
Agnew, Sir Peter Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. Biggs-Davison, J. A.
Aitken, W. T. Baldwin, A. E. Bingham, R. M.
Alton, R. A. (Paddington, S.) Balniel, Lord Birch, Rt. Hon. Nigel
Alport, C. J. M. Barlow, Sir John Bishop, F. P.
Amory, Rt. Hn. Heathcoat (Tiverton) Barter, John Bossom, Sir Alfred
Arbuthnot, John Beamish, Col. Tufton Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hon. J. A.
Armstrong, C. W. Bell, Philip (Bolton, E.) Boyle, Sir Edward
Ashton, H. Bell, Ronald (Bucks, S.) Braine, B. R.
Astor, Hon. J. J. Bennett, F. M. (Torquay) Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.)
Atkins, H. E. Bevins, J. R. (Toxteth) Brooke, Rt. Hon. Henry
Brooman-White, R. C. Heath, Rt. Hon. E. R. G. Nicolson, N. (B'n'm'th, E. & Chr'ch)
Browne, J. Nixon (Craigton) Henderson, John (Cathcart) Noble, Comdr. Rt. Hon. Allan
Bryan, P. Henderson-Stewart, Sir James Nugent, G. R. H.
Burden, F. F. A. Hesketh, R. F. Oakshott, H. D.
Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A. (Saffron Walden) Hicks-Beach, Maj. W. W. O'Neill, Hn. Phelim (Co. Antrim, N.)
Campbell, Sir David Hill, Rt. Hon. Charles (Luton) Ormsby-Gore Rt. Hon. W. D.
Cary, Sir Robert Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe) Orr, Capt. L. P. S.
Channon, Sir Henry Hinchingbrooke, Viscount Osborne, C.
Chichester-Clark, R. Hirst, Geoffrey Pannell, N. A. (Kirkdale)
Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmth, W.) Hope, Lord John Partridge, E.
Cole, Norman Hornby, R. P. Peel, W. J.
Conant, Maj. Sir Roger Hornsby-Smith, Miss M. P. Peyton, J. W. W.
Cooke, Robert Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Dame Florence Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Cooper, A. E. Hudson, W. R. A. (Hull, N.) Pike, Miss Mervyn
Cooper-Key, E. M. Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral J. Pilkington, Capt. R. A.
Cordeaux, Lt. Col. J. K. Hughes-Young, M. H. C. Pitt, Miss E. M.
Craddock, Beresford (Spelthorne) Hulbert, Sir Norman Powell, J. Enoch
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Hurd, A. R. Price, David (Eastleigh)
Crowder, Sir John (Finchley) Hutchison, Michael Clark (E'b'gh, S.) Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.)
Cunningham, Knox Hutchison, Sir Ian Clark (E'b'gh, W.) Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. L.
Currie, C. B. H. Hyde, Montgomery Rawlinson, Peter
Davidson, Viscountess Iremonger, T. L. Redmayne, M.
D'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Remnant, Hon. P.
Deedes, W. F. Jennings, J. C. (Burton) Renton, D. L. M.
Digby, Simon Wingfield Jennings, Sir Roland (Hallam) Ridsdale, J. E.
Dodds-Parker, A. D Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) Roberts, Sir Peter (Heeley)
Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. McA. Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Robertson, Sir David
Doughty, C J. A. Jones, Rt. Hon. Aubrey (Hall Green) Robinson, Sir Roland (Blackpool, S.)
du Cann, E. D. L. Joseph, Sir Keith Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard
Dugdale, Rt. Hn. Sir T. (Richmond) Joynson-Hicks, Hon. Sir Lancelot Russell, R. S.
Duncan, Sir James Kaberry, D. Sandys, Rt. Hon. D.
Eden, J. B. (Bournemouth, West) Kerr, Sir Hamilton Scott-Miller, Cmdr. R.
Elliott, R. W. (Ne'castle upon Tyne, N.) Kimball, M. Sharples, R. C.
Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn Kirk, P. M. Shepherd, William
Errington, Sir Eric Lagden, G. W. Smithers, Peter (Winchester)
Erroll, F. J. Lancaster, Col. C. G. Smyth, Brig. Sir John (Norwood)
Farey-Jones, F. W. Langford-Holt, J. A. Spearman, Sir Alexander
Fell, A. Legh, Hon. Peter (Petersfield) Speir, R. M.
Finlay, Graeme Lennox-Boyd, Rt. Hon. A. T. Stanley, Capt. Hon. Richard
Fisher, Nigel Lindsay, Hon. James (Devon, N.) Stevens, Geoffrey
Fletcher-Cooke, C. Lindsay, Martin (Solihull) Steward, Harold (Stockport, S.)
Forrest, G. Linstead, Sir H. N. Steward, Sir William (Woolwich, W.)
Foster, John Llewellyn, D. T. Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm
Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) Longden, Gilbert Storey, S.
Fraser, Sir Ian (M'cmbe & Lonsdale) Low, Rt. Hon. Sir Toby Studholme, Sir Henry
Gammans, Lady Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) Summers, Sir Spencer
Garner-Evans, E. H. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Sumner, W. D. M. (Orpington)
Gibson-Watt, D. McAdden, S. J. Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Glover, D. Maodonald, Sir Peter Taylor, William (Bradford, N.)
Glyn, Col. Richard H. Mackeson, Brig. Sir Harry Teeling, W.
Godber, J. B. McKibbin, Alan Temple, John M.
Goodhart, Philip Mackie, J. H. (Galloway) Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury)
Gough, G. F. H. Maclay, Rt. Hon. John Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Gower, H R. Maclean, Sir Fitzroy (Lancaster) Thompson, R. (Croydon, S.)
Graham, Sir Fergus McLean, Neil (Inverness) Thorneycroft, Rt. Hon. P.
Grant, W. (Woodside) Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain (Enfield, W.) Tiley, A. (Bradford, W.)
Crant-Ferris, Wg Cdr. R. (Nantwich) Macmillan, Rt. Hn. Harold (Bromley) Tilney, John (Wavertree)
Green, A. Macmillan, Maurice (Halifax) Turner, H. F. L.
Gresham Cooke, R. Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries) Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Grimston, Hon. John (St. Albans) Maddan, Martin Tweedsmuir, Lady
Grimston, Sir Robert (Westbury) Manningham-Buller, Rt. Hn. Sir R. Vickers, Miss Joan
Grosvenor, Lt.-Col. R. G. Marlowe, A. A. H. Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.)
Gurden, Harold Marples, Rt. Hon. A. E. Wall, Patrick
Hall, John (Wycombe) Mathew, R. Ward, Rt. Hon. G. R. (Worcester)
Hare, Rt. Hon. J. H. Maudling, Rt. Hon. R. Watkinson, Rt. Hon. Harold
Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N. W.) Mawby, R. L. Webbe, Sir H.
Harris, Reader (Heston) Maydon, Lt.-Comdr. S. L. C. Whitelaw, W. S. I.
Harrison, A. B. C. (Maldon) Milligan, Rt. Hon. W. R. Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) Moore, Sir Thomas Wills, G. (Bridgwater)
Harvey, Ian (Harrow, E.) Morrison, John (Salisbury) Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) Nabarro, G. D. N. Wood, Hon. R.
Harvie-Watt, Sir George Nairn, D. L. S. Woollam, John Victor
Hay, John Neave, Airey Yates, William (The Wrekin)
Head, Rt. Hon. A. H. Nicholls, Harmar
Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel Nicholson, Sir Godfrey (Farnham) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mr. Dance and Mr. Page.