§ Mr. SpeakerThere are a number of Amendments on the Notice Paper relating to this Clause which appear to have the same import. I take it that they are all of a drafting nature?
§ Mr. SpeakerWith the leave of the House, I propose to put all the Amendments to pages 3 and 4 down to the Amendment in the name of the hon. Member for Barking (Mr. Hastings), en bloc.
§ Amendments made: In page 3, line 21, leave out "a" and insert "the".
§ In line 22, leave out "an infant" and insert "a child".
§ In line 26, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 28, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 33, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
785§ In line 37, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 38, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 42, leave out "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 44, leave out first "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 44, leave out second "infant" and insert "child".
§ In page 4, line 2, leave out first "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 2, leave out second "infant" and insert "child".
§ In line 4, leave out "an infant" and insert "a child".—[Mr. Moyle.]
§ Mr. Somerville Hastings (Barking)I beg to move, in page 4, to leave out lines 8 to 10.
Clause 5 deals with the exceptional case in which there are no suitable relatives available for the care of the child and in which the court commits the care of the child to the local authority after discussion with the local authority. The court has power to hear any representations from the local authority. This Clause gives power to the local authority to over-ride the desire of the parents, if need be, or, as my hon. Friend the Member for Widnes (Mr. MacColl) pointed out, subsection (3) says:
While an order made by virtue of this section is in force with respect to any infant, the infant shall continue in the care of the local authority notwithstanding any claim by a parent or other person.Subsection (8) goes further and gives the court further powers over the local authority. It says:The court shall have power from time to time by an order under this section to vary or discharge any provision made in pursuance of this section.We seek to remove subsection (5, a), which says:the exercise by the local authority of their powers under sections twelve to sixteen of that Act shall be subject to any directions given by the court.The Act referred to is the Children Act. The powers of the authority under Sections 12 to 16 of the Act will be subject to any direction given by the court.Sections 12 and 16 deal with the detailed care and management of children 786 under the care of a local authority in respect of boarding out and the provision of a home provided by the authority, or a voluntary home, according to its discretion. Our contention is that conditions change very much and the local authority should not have constantly to ask for the decisions of the court as to dealing with the day-to-day care of the child it has to supervise.
I have had some experience of child care for many years and I realise what a difficult subject it is. We all know it is difficult to read the mind of a child and to know exactly what it is thinking. That applies to the ordinary child, but children dealt with under this Clause are, a priori, children of broken homes. They have already had a scar made on their mentality. I have had experience of dealing with delinquent children and know that a large number of them come from broken homes.
These children are difficult to deal with and decisions have sometimes to be made very rapidly. The local authority may decide in its wisdom, with the authority of the court, that the child had better be boarded out, but when the boarding out begins difficulty sometimes arises and the people concerned want the child removed. The child then has to be taken quickly to a home run by the local authority.
Let me illustrate another kind of case which I am constantly meeting, as chairman of a committee that deals with a hostel for teenagers. A boy may be starting business, or a child under the care of a local authority is starting out, and is put into lodgings. Again, difficulty arises, and we have to remove the young person quickly to a hostel. These removals would be very difficult if they could only be carried out after consultation with a court.
We all know how rapidly children appreciate dichotomy in authority. Where two authorities are looking after one child the child finds it out very quickly and takes advantage of it. When power has been given under the Children Act, 1948, or the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, the local authority has been subject to no direction by the court. The children committee of the local authority has been asked to do its best and has responded to the best of its ability.
787 The Bill proposes to put strings to the suggestion, when a child is referred to a local authority for care. I cannot understand how, without a very marked change in the law, this proposal can he carried out. Section 12 of the Children Act, 1948, reads:
Where a child is in the care of a local authority, it shall be the duty of that authority to exercise their powers with respect to him so as to further his best interests, and to afford him opportunity for the proper development of his character and abilities.How can the local authority carry out that precept if it is to be instructed in detail by a court?
§ Mr. SpeakerDoes any Member second the Amendment? There being no seconder of the Amendment, it falls.
§ Amendments made: In page 4, line 14, leave out "an infant" and insert "a child".
§ In line 20, leave out "an infant" and insert "a child".—[Mr. Moyle.]
§ Mr. MacCollI beg to move, in page 4, line 28, at the end to insert:
and may substitute for an order under this section an order under section six of this Act".This is a probing Amendment. I want to find out whether it is possible, after a court order has been made committing a child to the care of a local authority, for the court to consider an application under Clause 5 (8) to vary that order by substituting an order for supervision under Clause 6? The contrary position arises where a supervision order has broken down, and it is possible for the court to make an order committing the child to the care of the council. Subsection (8) says:The court shall have power from time to time by an order under this section to vary car discharge any provision made in pursuance of this section.Whether making an order under a different Section would be varying an order is not immediately clear and it would be very helpful to us and relieve our minds if my hon. Friend would say that there is a continuing provision under the Clause to enable that to be done and to deal with any problem that arises.
§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Mr. MoyleThe Amendment seeks to give the Divorce Court power to substitute for an order committing a child to the care of the local authority an order placing a child under the supervision of the welfare officer of the local authority.
The Amendment is unnecessary, because the purpose my hon. Friend seeks to serve is already covered by the Bill, and I suggest that he withdraws the Amendment. For the purposes of greater accuracy, I have taken legal advice on this point and I am happy to be able to give a more positive answer to my hon. Friend than I did in the interesting exchanges that we previously had. It shows that it is unnecessary to confer this power specifically on the High Court.
It is unnecessary to confer this power specifically on the High Court. Clause 6 enables the court to make a supervision order as respects any period during which the child is committed to the custody of any person. Consequently, on discharging an order placing a child in the care of a local authority, the court can forthwith make an order for the child's custody—if it has not already done so—and put him under the supervision of a welfare officer or local authority.
There is a later Amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Widnes (Mr. MacColl), in page 5, line 21, at the end to insert:
and may substitute for an order under this section an order under section five of this Act".This is virtually the same as the Amendment we are considering.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe two Amendments are connected, so there is no harm in discussing them together now.
§ Mr. MacCollAs these statements have been made in the presence of the Solicitor-General, and have not been challenged, I am happy to accept the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Oldbury and Halesowen (Mr. Moyle). I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.