Airliners (Seats)

HC Deb 26 March 1958 vol 585 cc422-4

30. Mr. Gresham Cooke

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will ask the Air Registration Board to consider the desirability of civilian airliners having seats constructed to stand 15G instead of 9G as at present, in the interests of safety.

Mr. Watkinson

Present evidence indicates that no worth-while gain in safety would result from increasing the strength of seats beyond 9G. The Air Registration Board agrees with this view.

Mr. Gresham Cooke

As in a slow crash or belly landing the movement of seats can cause accident and sometimes death to passengers, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the practice of the Royal Air Force, which insists upon having seats with fixtures up to 20G instead of 9G, and consider whether it would be better to bring airliners into line with R.A.F. practice?

Mr. Watkinson

I am aware of my Friend's interest in this matter. One must, however, make highly technical judgment in these matters of the force of gravity on passengers in civil aircraft. As I said in my Answer, the view of the Air Registration Board, whose statutory duty it is to advise me about these things, is that the present 9G standard is about right.

Mr. Beswick

Is the Minister aware that the whole point about this is that there is no reason to increase the strength while the seat faces forward, because the force is put upon the lap-strap and not upon the seat, but that if he has the seats facing rearwards, it would be necessary to have greater strength in the seats?

32. Mr. Gresham Cooke

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will instruct his representative on the International Civil Aviation Organisation to raise the question of backward-facing seats as being desirable in the interests of all airlines and their passengers.

Mr. Watkinson

The matter was last discussed by the International Civil Aviation Organisation in September, 1956, on the initiative of the United Kingdom. No fresh evidence has come to light since then to justify a renewed approach but I am keeping the matter under review.

Mr. Gresham Cooke

If, as a result of the inquiry into the Munich crash, my right hon. Friend thinks it necessary to reopen the matter, will he do so, because it would be a great thing for this country to take the lead in introducing a safety measure all over the world—in American airlines as well as British—by fitting backward-facing seats, which are obviously safer in the event of a crash in which the plane is going slowly along the ground?

Mr. Watkinson

My hon. Friend might like to know that members of the Institute of Aviation Medicine have participated or are participating in the investigations into the Munich and Winter Hill accidents, and I will look very carefully at what they may say.

Mr. Beswick

May I press the Minister on that? He says that no further evidence is available, but none is required. All the experts are really satisfied that the rearward-facing seat is safer, and the only question that has arisen is that of the commercial desirability of changing the seats round. In view of that, does not the Minister think he ought to take a fresh initiative with the international organisation, or set a lead from here?

Mr. Watkinson

I have not ruled out the question of doing that, but I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman that all the experts are entirely agreed. They are not, and that is one of the reasons why we are seeking some fresh evidence about this.

Mr. Hastings

May I ask the Minister whether, in view of the fact that, while the experts may not be in complete agreement, there are a great many people who travel by air who believe that it is much safer and would much prefer to sit in backward-facing seats, he will accordingly press that there should be at least some backward-facing seats in all aeroplanes?

Mr. Watkinson

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will remember that I said recently in the House that modern British aircraft are already fitted so that the seats can face either forward or backward, and, in some modern British types there is a proportion of seats which already face backwards.