HC Deb 05 March 1958 vol 583 cc1145-8
16. Mr. Gower

asked the Postmaster-General to what extent in the administration of his Department in Wales account is taken of the fact that the Welsh language is the chief language of many persons in Wales, and the only language of others; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. K. Thompson

We do all we can to make sure that anyone who wishes to transact his Post Office business in Welsh can do so. Fel mater o ffaith byddwn yn cymeryd—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I do not understand the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. G. Thomas

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Are you now ruling that it is out of order for any right hon. or hon. Gentleman to make a quotation in the Welsh language in this House? I beg to submit that hitherto the Chair has not frowned on quotations in Welsh.

Mr. Speaker

Has not frowned on what?

Mr. Thomas

The Chair has not hitherto taken exception to hon. Members on either side making quotations in the Welsh language.

Mr. Speaker

I did not know whether it was a quotation or not. It seems to me out of order to address the House in any other language but English.

Mr. Gower rose

—

Mr. Speaker

Is the hon. Member for Barry (Mr. Gower) rising to a point of order?

Mr. Gower

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Would you kindly rule that it is, and will be, in order for a person to quote in Welsh in the same way as he might quote in Latin or Greek?

Mr. Speaker

Yes. All these other languages are allowed within reason in quotation, but in order to keep himself in order an hon. Member should state that the sounds he proposes to utter represents a quotation, otherwise the Chair is completely at a loss.

Mr. Woodburn

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I hope that you will not take advantage of this rule yourself and address us in Gaelic.

Mr. Speaker

I should not dream of doing such a thing. It is true that I speak another old language, but I would not use it in this place. There is very old authority for that. It was St. Paul who said something to the effect that if a man prophesy in a language not understanded of the people it were better that he should refrain from prophesying and hold his peace.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Further to that point of order. Are you aware, Mr. Speaker, that there is a precedent for an hon. Member from Wales addressing this House in the Welsh language? The Right Hon. William Abraham, who at one time represented the Rhondda Valley, once said the Lord's Prayer in Welsh, and all hon. Members laughed because they could not understand it.

Mr. Speaker

I was not Speaker then. Has the hon. Member for Barry asked Question No. 16?

Mr. Thompson

That is the Question that I have just got into trouble about.

Mr. Speaker

It was impossible for me to understand what the Answer was.

Mr. Thompson

The Answer was that we do all we can to make sure that any one who wishes to transact his Post Office business in Welsh can do so. As a matter of fact, we take a great deal of trouble over this.

Mr. Gower

Is my hon. Friend aware that I was not grudging in my recognition of the concession, but is not it advisable that Welsh should be treated in this country with even greater tolerance than, for example, French is treated in non-French parts of Canada? [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"]

Mr. Thompson

We have to arrange to conduct our business in a way which makes it possible for people who may or may not be exclusively Welsh-speaking to do business in post offices, and that we do.

Mr. Bowen

May I ask the Assistant Postmaster-General whether his Answer means that behind the counter in post offices in Welsh-speaking parts of Wales there will always be available an assistant who can conduct business in Welsh?

Mr. Thompson

It depends on what the hon. and learned Gentleman means by "Welsh-speaking parts of Wales", but broadly the answer is "Yes."

Commander Donaldson

Further to the supplementary question of the hon. Member for Barry (Mr. Gower), may I ask the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware that the comparison of Canada is not apt to this country? The French language is acceptable in Canada, as it is a bilingual country, whereas this country is not.

Mr. Ness Edwards

Will the hon. Gentleman also ensure that similar facilities are available to English-speaking Welshmen in Wales?

Mr. Thompson

Oh, yes.

Mr. G. Thomas

On a point of order. In view of the answers which have been given today, I beg to give notice that at the first opportunity I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment.