HC Deb 30 June 1958 vol 590 cc866-8
32. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he has now given to the new proposals from Messrs. Vickers-Armstrongs for an experimental aircraft embodying the principles of variable geometry.

Mr. Aubrey Jones

Examination of the proposals is not yet completed.

Mr. Beswick

In view of the rather exaggerated statements made about this proposal, would not the Minister consider it advantageous if the House were given a little more information about it? It is a fact that, instead of there being just one design involved, there are a number of different ideas which may or may not be best developed in one aircraft, and may we have an assurance that, no matter what may happen with regard to the American proposals, these different lines of inquiry will be pursued in this country?

Mr. Jones

I am always happy to give the hon. Gentleman and the House as much information as I can. I tried to do so in the recent debate on the aircraft industry. It is perfectly true that a number of principles are involved. What has been at issue is how many of those principles one can attempt to incorporate at the first stage in a research aircraft. Should the project be an ambitious one to start with or a little more modest? The answer to that depends, of course, on the cost.

Mr. Beswick

To pursue the second part of my supplementary question, if American proposals for an ambitious prototype fall through, shall we in this country develop some of these ideas?

Mr. Jones

There are no proposals from the Americans. The proposals are from the company, and I think we had better await the American answer and then see what is the position.

33. Mr. Beswick

asked the Minister of Supply if, before making any final decision with regard to the development of the Swallow aircraft with United States financial aid, he will make a further detailed statement with regard to the proposed terms on which the aid is to be made available.

Mr. Aubrey Jones

It is not yet known whether the American Government will feel able to support this project under Mutual Aid. If they do, the standard conditions agreed on between the two Governments for this form of aid, which safeguard commercial rights in the invention, will apply.

Mr. Beswick

Will the Minister take into account that there are many people in this country who feel that ideas have gone across the Atlantic for development in the United States without this country getting very much in return? Can he say whether it would be possible to give the House the terms of any possible agreement before it is concluded?

Mr. Jones

Again it would be difficult to give the House the precise terms of any agreement because it would be an agreement between two companies—for instance, a licence arrangement—and, as such, would be confidential. In broad terms, I should be only too happy to try to help the House. At this stage I can say that most of the techniques involved here have already been patented, and the conditions agreed upon between the two Governments are designed to safeguard commercial rights.

37. Mr. Mason

asked the Minister of Supply to what extent his Department has now considered financing the variable geometry aircraft in co-operation with the United States of America under the Mutual Air Programme; and to what extent within this programme other advanced methods of space travel are being considered.

Mr. Aubrey Jones

As I have already stated in reply to the hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Beswick), the examination is still proceeding. This particular variable geometry project has no special relevance to space travel.

Mr. Ellis Smith

As one who was trained to build turbines and other engineering products mathematically and geometrically, and having learned that engineering is a precise science, may I ask the Minister to explain what "variable geometry" means?

Mr. Jones

If, as a tyro, I may offer an explanation, I think the terms means an aircraft which varies its shape in flight.