§ 21. Mr. P. Noel-Bakerasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what proposals for the reduction of the armed forces of the leading powers and of their conventional armaments were laid before the United Nations Disarmament Sub-Committee during its session in London in 1957.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydThe information which the right hon. Gentleman requires is contained in the report on the proceedings of the Disarmament Sub-Committee, Command 333, a copy of which has been sent to him.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerI am familiar with the document, but can the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell the House what the reductions in Western manpower would have been under these proposals, and what types and quantities of arms would have been stockpiled in the dumps on national soil for which they provided?
§ Mr. LloydI really think that if the right hon. Gentleman will look at the document he will find that that information is therein contained.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerI have examined it with the very greatest care, but, so far as I can make out, the proposals make no reduction in Western manpower, and there were no proposals as to the types or quantities of arms to be stockpiled. It is precisely that information that I am asking him to give to the House.
§ Mr. LloydThe reply to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary is that he is quite wrong. Definite figures were put down for reduction: in the first stage, down to 2½ million, and 750,000 for us; in the second stage, 2,100,000, and 700,000 for us; and in the third stage, 1,700,000, and 650,000 for us. I think that the right hon. Gentleman is right on the other matter. Precision was not given to the actual reductions in armaments. The right hon. Gentleman, who, I hope, wishes to be fair in this matter, will remember that this is one of the points about which we have sought again and again to have discussions with the Russians.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerI have every desire to be fair, but, as I understand it, the figures that the Foreign Secretary has 410 quoted would not mean any reduction for the Western Powers at the first stage and, in the second and third stages, would not operate until undefined political conditions had been fulfilled.
§ Mr. LloydIn the first stage, it is true that the figures for the United Kingdom did not involve any reduction, because we had previously announced that the total of the Armed Forces was coming down substantially below that figure. I should think that was to our credit, not to our discredit. I am informed that it did involve a reduction for the others.