HC Deb 29 July 1958 vol 592 cc1255-8

Lords Amendment: In page 27, line 31, at end insert: A1. Where, by virtue of any provision of the First Schedule to this Act, any functions of the Minister under an enactment referred to in that provision fall to be exercised after the coming into operation thereof by the Lord Chancellor, the Agricultural Land Tribunal or an arbitrator, anything done in the exercise of those functions, in so far as it has effect immediately before the coming into operation of that provision shall, subject to the provisions of this Schedule, continue to have effect thereafter as if done by the Lord Chancellor, the Agricultural Land Tribunal or an arbitrator, as the case may be, under the said enactment as amended by this Act.

Mr. Godber

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This and the next Amendment go together. We are here inserting this provision in place of paragraphs 5 and 6 on page 29 of the Bill. Those paragraphs make certain provisions relating to the powers of the Minister in the transitional stage in relation to the 1948 Act. We were advised that they did not fully cover all the circumstances that might arise and we have, therefore, used this different form which gives a wider cover. There is no point of principle at stake.

Mr. Willey

I agree with the Parliamentary Secretary that it is wiser to make a general provision. I believe that these are the last of the Amendments dealing with England, and I hesitate to trespass on Scottish affairs—

Mr. Godber

There is one more English Amendment.

Mr. Willey

I thought that Amendment was consequential. I have nothing further to say until we reach it.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to: In page 29, line 8, leave out from beginning to end of line 13.

Lords Amendment: In page 29, line 44, leave out from beginning to end of line 4 on page 30, and insert: 9A. Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph A1 of this Schedule, regulations made by the Minister under section twenty-six or section fifty of the Act of 1948 in force immediately before the passing of this Act shall continue in force thereafter and shall be treated as orders made by the Lord Chancellor under the said section twenty-six, or, as the case may be, the said section fifty, as amended by this Act.

Mr. Godber

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This is the last of the Amendments before we reach the Scottish ones, and I look forward with warm anticipation to what the hon. Member for Sunderland, North will say about this very satisfactory Bill. This is merely another of the small points providing for orders in place of regulations, and this Amendment is exactly on all fours with the previous one dealing with this point.

Mr. Willey

As the Parliamentary Secretary has indicated, this is a minor Amendment dealing with a matter with which we have already dealt. In fact, it is so minor that I hardly apologise for overlooking it.

As this is the last of the Amendments dealing with the English part of the Bill, I should like to say that we on this side of the House are very disappointed that we have got from another place only very minor Amendments and that no attention has been paid to the fact that the industry generally is hostile to the Bill and that it is thoroughly unwelcome. For that reason, we are very disappointed.

Mr. Speaker

That does not arise on this Amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 30, line 25 leave out "Paragraph 1" and insert "Paragraphs A1 and 1".

The Lord Advocate (Mr. W. R. Milligan)

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

We now come to the most important Amendments on the Paper. I think this and the next Amendment in line 27 might be taken together. They are consequential and they are of Scottish application following on Amendments previously made.

Mr. William Ross (Kilmarnock)

I should have thought that we would have had a speech adequate to the description which the Lord Advocate has given to this Amendment, whereas he dealt with it in a rather slipshod manner.

The following Amendment in line 27 states: (1a) in paragraph A1 for references to the Minister and to the Lord Chancellor, the Agricultural Land Tribunal or an arbitrator there shall be substituted respectively references to the Secretary of State and to the Land Court or an arbiter;". It is a little confusing when we read words like that. When we are asked to substitute things, we are entitled to expect that there shall be an equivalent number of things for which there are to be substitutions. We find, of course, that the words are "references to the Minister"—that is the first thing—"to the Lord Chancellor"—that is the second thing—"the Agricultural Land Tribunal"—that is the third—and "an arbitrator"—that is the fourth. Then we are given respective terms to apply to those four, but when we read them we find that there are only three. I wonder exactly what is to apply here. It says: there shall be substituted respectively references to the Secretary of State and to the Land Court or an arbiter. Does that mean that for "Minister" shall be substituted "Secretary of State" and for "Lord Chancellor" there shall be substituted "the Land Court"?

For most important Amendments, I think the matter could have been a wee bit clearer. Is the learned Lord Advocate entirely satisfied with the wording? I assure him that, if this had come before the Scottish Grand Committee, we should probably have spent about five or six hours on it and given the matter the importance which the Lord Advocate himself said should be attached to it. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman satisfied with this last-minute change which comes from another place? In my view, it is very loose use of the word "respectively", when, for four things, we are told that we must substitute only three new terms. I know that he will probably now give me a lecture on the conjunction "and", but I should be glad to have some explanation from him.

The Lord Advocate

By leave of the House, Mr. Speaker, I should like to satisfy the hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross), who is usually so helpful on drafting matters. If he will read the Amendment again, he will see that in the first and second line we have the words to the Minister and to the Lord Chancellor and we then have a comma, after which we go on with the other two parties. I think that it is perfectly clear, but we are interested to hear the hon. Gentleman.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments agreed to:

In page 30, line 27, at end insert: (1a) in paragraph A1 for references to the Minister and to the Lord Chancellor, the Agricultural Land Tribunal or an arbitrator there shall be substituted respectively references to the Secretary of State and to the Land Court or an arbiter;

In line 42, leave out from beginning to end of line 48.

In page 31, line 12, at end add: 14A. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 36 of the First Schedule to this Act, the regulations made by the Secretary of State under section twenty-seven of the Scottish Act of 1949 in force immediately before the day appointed for the coming into operation of section three of this Act shall continue to have effect for the purposes of any proceedings consequent upon a notice to quit in a case where the tenant served on the landlord a counter-notice under subsection (1) of section twenty-five of that Act before that day.