HC Deb 24 July 1958 vol 592 cc662-6
34. Mr. Bottomley

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement about the defence talks with the South African Government concerning the High Commission Territories of Bechuanaland, Basutoland and Swaziland.

37. Mr. E. L. Mallalieu

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what decisions were reached during the recent discussions between the South African Defence Minister and the High Commissioner for Basutoland, Swaziland and Bechuanaland with regard to defence planning facilities; and what proposals have been reached on behalf of the United Kingdom Government for further facilities to be granted to the South African Government.

38. Mrs. Castle

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what defence planning facilities have been given to the South African Government in Basutoland, the Bechuanaland Protectorate and Swaziland.

Mr. Alport

Discussions on this subject between the Union Minister of Defence and the High Commissioner for Basutoland, the Bechuanaland Protectorate and Swaziland have recently been concluded. A statement has been published, for the text of which I would refer the right hon. Member to my reply to my hon. Friend, the Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall) on 21st July.

Mr. Bottomley

Does the Minister recall that the Government were warned in 1955 that the granting of certain defence facilities would result in further pressure from the Union? This is happening. Why are the Government so anxious to co-operate with the Union Government when they have not been fully co-operative on defence matters generally with this country?

Mr. Alport

We recognise the important part which the Union of South Africa plays in the defence of Southern Africa generally, and the facilities which have been granted in accordance with the agreement recently reached are directly relevant to the Union of South Africa carrying out its responsibilities for defence in that area.

Mr. Mallalieu

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the granting to the Union of South Africa of any facilities in the Protectorates is liable to be the subject of very grave misunderstandings inside the Protectorates? Will he agree that, if any facilities are given, the benefits to the inhabitants of those Protectorates should be obvious to them in order to avoid those misconceptions?

Mr. Alport

I fully agree, and the High Commissioner, through the Resident Commissioners, is taking particular steps to ensure that the full significance of this agreement is understood by all the African authorities concerned.

Mrs. Castle

Will the hon. Gentleman say what representations he has received from the Territories about this scheme? Secondly, could he say whether, in addition to these defence facilities, facilities for defence intelligence are to be granted to the South African Government, since the two often go together, and, if so, will not it have very serious political significance?

Mr. Alport

The main heads of the agreement are set out in the announcement to which I referred, which is included in my Answer to the Question of my hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall). I have to answer a Question shortly about consultation, and I think that that will cover the matter raised in the earlier part of the hon. Lady's supplementary question.

35. Mr. Rankin

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what consultations have taken place this year with the African peoples of Bechuanaland, Basutoland, and Swaziland with regard to the defence planning facilities which will be granted to the South African Government, and which were agreed in discussions in Pretoria between the South African Defence Minister and the High Commissioner for the three Territories.

36. Sir L. Plummer

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations to what extent, and by what methods, the indigenous populations of the three High Commission Territories of Swaziland, Basutoland, and Bechuanaland have been consulted this year before the defence planning facilities were agreed to by the United Kingdom, the South African Government, and the High Commissioner.

Mr. Alport

As I stated in reply to a Question on 21st November, 1957, the appropriate authorities in the Territories were consulted as necessary and their views were taken into account. Responsibility for the security of the High Commission Territories rests exclusively with the United Kingdom, and in discharging this responsibility the United Kingdom Government will ensure that the interests of the inhabitants will be effectively safeguarded.

Mr. Rankin

Is the Minister aware that there is a feeling that this is the thin end of the wedge, if I may use that expression? Is it the case that, while these facilities are being granted now, there is already a request for further facilities from the Union of South Africa?

Mr. Alport

Reference was made by the Minister of Defence in South Africa to a facility which was not accepted and agreed to by the United Kingdom Government. I am not aware of any other requests for facilities which have been made to us. Some of the facilities which have been accorded to the Union of South Africa are of mutual advantage. For instance, the provision of air rescue services in the Protectorates is of great advantage and is in accordance with the responsibility the Union has undertaken under the Chicago Convention. As regards the others, we are satisfied that they are directly related to the Union's defence responsibilities in Southern Africa.

Sir L. Plummer

Is the Minister satisfied that the indigenous population of the High Commission Territories is satisfied too? Is he aware that there is a grave and natural suspicion at the entry of South African troops into a High Commission country, and has he a pledge from the South African Government that if in dire circumstances they should have to go in, they will get out as soon as conveniently possible?

Mr. Alport

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that he need have no fears on that particular score. As regards the particular item in the agreement which affects Basutoland, the agreement of the Paramount Chief Regent was received before the final defence agreement was concluded.

Mr. Dugdale

The hon. Gentleman said that there were consultations with many people there. Have the views of those people been set out anywhere? May we know how far they were satisfied—not only the Paramount Chief but other important people there also?

Mr. Alport

The decision with regard to the nature of the consultations must properly be left to the High Commissioner, and the High Commissioner undertook such consultations as he felt were appropriate in the circumstances. When I was there I did have an opportunity of discussing this matter in Basutoland, and there also I took the chance of explaining the background of Her Majesty's Government's point of view in this matter. My feeling is that that was fully understood by those who were present on that occasion.

Mr. Paget

Against whom does the Union want to defend itself in Basutoland—us?

Mr. Alport

The Union installation is not in Basutoland. The only relevance which this has to Basutoland is to a road of access to a particular place which is to be established on Union territory.