HC Deb 14 July 1958 vol 591 cc797-800
9. Mr. Hale

asked the Minister of Health the total cost to public funds of the case of Barber versus Manchester Regional Hospital Board and the Minister of Health; and to what account this sum is to be charged.

The Minister of Health (Mr. Derek Walker-Smith)

The cost to public funds, apart from any apportionment of the salaries and expenses of officers of the Ministry and of the Board, was £13,865 18s. 7d. £6,410 7s. 9d. has been charged to the Ministry of Health Vote (Class V, Vote 4) and the remainder—through the accounts of the regional hospital board—to the Vote for the National Health Service (Class V, Vote 5).

Mr. Hale

In view of the fact that this was entirely a decision by the Minister, made after protests in this House by me and after a protesting deputation from the regional hospital committee had come, why on earth should they have to pay for the folly of the Minister, who declined to accept all the advice that was given and pigheadedly insisted upon contesting this case until the last minute?

Mr. Walker-Smith

All these events took place a long time ago, but I certainly do not accept the interpretation of them given by the hon. Member. The dismissal was a matter for the regional hospital board, which is the employing authority. Mr. Justice Barry found that the termination of the employment was wrongful but nevertheless took effect, and therefore he gave a penalty in damages. That figure is, of course, included in the sum to which I have referred.

Dr. Summerskill

That reply does not answer the Question which was put by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Hale). The matter got considerable publicity. The House would like to know why the Minister himself decided, at a cost the House has heard, to dismiss the best advice which was given to him and to take action in this matter. The House wants to know why the Minister decided to do so.

Mr. Walker-Smith

The Minister is advised by counsel appropriately in this matter. I do not suppose that the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Hale) has never had unsuccessful litigation on behalf of his clients.

10 and 11. Mr. Hale

asked the Minister of Health (1) what steps he has taken to comply with the declaration made against him in the case of Barber versus Manchester Regional Hospital Board and the Minister of Health that, in failing to comply with Clause 16 of the Terms and Conditions of Service, he was in breach of statutory duty;

(2) whether he is aware that Mr. A. H. Barber who was awarded damages against the Minister for wrongful dismissal has still not been offered any employment in the National Health Service; and what action he proposes to take in this matter.

Mr. Walker-Smith

I have asked the Manchester Regional Hospital Board to accept a moral obligation to assist Mr. Barber in obtaining suitable employment if he applies for an advertised vacancy in the usual way. I am sending a copy of my letter to the hon. Member.

Mr. Hale

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept the fact that I am extremely grateful, for what seemed a slightly modified expression of the duty that fell upon him under Clauses 15 and 16, as declared by Mr. Justice Barry? I accept what appears to be a change of heart. I hope it means that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will try to see that this extremely distinguished gynaecologist, who is highly esteemed in the district, is found suitable employment in the National Health Service?

Dr. Summerskill

In view of the fact that this gynaecologist has been completely exonerated, but that nevertheless such publicity has been given to the case that he must inevitably be prejudiced in the eyes of certain authorities, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman undertake, in the event of his not being accepted for any advertised posts in the near future, that he will take a personal interest in this matter and see that the man is placed in the National Health Service?

Mr. Walker-Smith

The right hon. Lady has asked me to do something which I have not actually power to do. I am governed in this matter by Section 14 (2) of the National Health Service Act, 1946, and the regulations made thereunder. If the right hon. Lady will study those regulations, she will see that they are explicit that vacancies have to be advertised and that appointments can only follow if the appropriate procedure has been taken. No doubt the hospital board will be mindful of the fact that it has a moral obligation in the case and can pass that on to other employing authorities.

Dame Irene Ward

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that I am not at all satisfied about the moral obligation business, because up to the moment it has worked very unsatisfactorily? It has taken about seven months—probably through no fault of his own—to get my right hon. and learned Friend into consultation with the British Medical Association. Can I have an assurance that this moral obligation will, in fact, become something which matters tremendously to the Ministry of Health, the interests of the medical profession itself?

Mr. Walker-Smith

My hon. Friend is wrong; unusually so, but she is wrong. The moral obligation procedure has worked well, as can be seen from the fact that there is only a small residual hard core of cases in which the moral obligation has been accepted in which the employing authorities have as yet found it impossible to find suitable employment. These are, in the main, cases where the person concerned is practising in a speciality which has, in fact, run down.