HC Deb 03 July 1958 vol 590 cc1578-80
41. Mr. Short

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many young people under the age of 18 years, before the Newcastle Magistrates' Court, have been remanded to gaol in 1956, 1957 and 1958, respectively; and what were their ages in each case.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. David Renton)

I will, with permission, circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. Short

The hon. and learned Gentleman will agree that the figures reveal a rather alarming and shocking state of affairs. Is it not rather disgraceful that any children should be remanded to gaol before they have been found guilty of any offence? Is he aware that a boy of 15 years of age in my constituency was recently remanded to gaol when he had committed only a very trivial technical offence? Does not he agree that what is happening throughout the North-East is nothing more than a breach of Section 27 of the 1948 Act? These children are being certified as unruly and depraved when they ought not to be so certified. Will he at least look into this matter—it is an extremely important matter—and receive a deputation from both sides of the House to discuss it?

Mr. Renton

When the hon. Gentleman studies these figures, I do not think he will feel quite so alarmed. In the last three years, only one boy, aged 14, has been remanded to gaol, and that was last year. My right hon. Friend agrees that remand centres are very desirable, and he intends that they should be provided as soon as funds can be spared for this purpose.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Popplewell.

Dame Irene Ward

On a point of order. As I am a member of the Newcastle Bench, Mr. Speaker, could you not call someone from this side?

Mr. Speaker

I failed to observe the hon. Lady.

Mr. Popplewell

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that all magistrates' courts in the North-East are seriously perturbed about the lack of reasonable remand home facilities for these youths? Is he aware that there has been a meeting representing magistrates' courts which is going to present a scheme to him to allow a remand home to be placed at their disposal covering that area? Will he promise that when it is presented to him he will give very sympathetic consideration to its early implementation?

Mr. Renton

My right hon. Friend is indeed conscious of the need for a remand centre in the North-East, and indeed elsewhere, and, of course, he will give sympathetic consideration to anything which is put before him.

Dame Irene Ward

As a member of the Newcastle Bench, may I ask my hon. and learned Friend whether he is aware that we had an all-party meeting at which it was agreed that we should, if the Home Secretary was agreeable to receive us, take a deputation to the Home Secretary and that until we had a chance to state our case to him we would not raise questions in the House of Commons?

Mr. H. Morrison

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that when I was a cockney child the policeman, when we misbehaved, flipped us over the ear with his black woollen glove and told us that if we did not behave he would run us inside, or that something else terrible would happen, with the result that we behaved ourselves? Is it not the case that we are doing a little too much about running children into approved schools at great public cost, and, although they have a public school life, it is not necessarily for the permanent good of the children?

Mr. Popplewell

On a point of order. In view of the observations of the hon. Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward), Mr. Speaker, would you allow a correction? There was never such an agreement entered into on questions of this description, and the hon. Lady's observation is a direct misrepresentation of what actually took place.

Dame Irene Ward

There is nothing to withdraw. It is true.

Following are the figures:

The numbers, sexes and ages of the young persons remanded to prison in the years 1956 to 1958 were:—
— Boys aged: Girls aged:
14 15 16 17 14 15 16 17
1956 — 4 1 14 — — — —
1957 1 1 2 14 — — — 1
1958 (to date) — 1 2 20 — — — —