HC Deb 29 January 1958 vol 581 cc415-8
Mr. Lennox-Boyd

I beg to move, in page 4, line 10, at the end to insert: (6) Service as an officer to whom this Act applies, in so far as (apart from this subsection) it would not be service in the oversea civil service within the meaning of the Governors' Pensions Act, 1957, shall be deemed to be service in the oversea civil service within the meaning of that Act. The Committee will remember that the Governors' Pensions Act, 1957, made special provisions for the pensions of Governors who, immediately before appointment as Governors, were employed in the Overseas Civil Service, which is defined as service in any office under the Government of…an overseas territory". The definition is in Section 17 of the 1957 Act.

In order that these provisions may apply to overseas officers who were in the Special List or in the Central Pool before being appointed as Governor, but were not employed in an overseas service as defined by the Governors' Pensions Act, 1957, to which I have referred, it is necessary to extend the definition of "overseas service" as defined by Section 17 of the 1957 Act.

This the proposed subsection (6) does. The result, of course, will be that if the Committee agrees with this provision an Overseas Service officer who serves in the Special List or the Central Pool and subsequently becomes a Governor can have his pension computed as though his previous overseas civil service had been in the public service of overseas Governments. I think that this will commend itself to the Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd

I beg to move, in page 4, line 10, at the end to insert: (6) Any Firemen's Pension Scheme brought into operation, whether before or after the passing of this Act, under section twenty-six of the Fire Services Act, 1947, may include, or be varied so as to include, provision whereby, in such circumstances as may be specified in the Scheme, pensions (including allowances and gratuities) may be paid thereunder to or in respect of persons who—

  1. (a) have after the passing of this Act retired from employment as members of fire brigades maintained in pursuance of that Act, or from other employment treated for the purposes of the Scheme as if it were employment as a member of such a fire brigade, and
  2. (b) after so retiring have served as officers to whom this Act applies;
and so much of subsection (3) of the said section twenty-six as relates to the circumstances in which a pension may be provided under such a Scheme shall not apply to any pension for which provision is made in accordance with this subsection. I am sorry to bother the Committee with this Amendment, but further study of the Bill has shown that it is necessary if we are to prevent an injustice. This is to enable firemen's accrued pension rights to be safeguarded on their transfer to service to which the Bill applies, in the same way as those of other public servants. We know that a number of important appointments have been made which are of great value to the Colonies concerned. Firemen are not within the scope of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1948, under which provision for putting pensions into cold storage will normally be made. Therefore, it is necessary to make this special provision.

Clause 3 (6) extends the powers of Section 26 of the Fire Services Act, 1947, under which the firemen's pension scheme is made, to enable an appropriate provision to be made in the scheme. In broad terms, the intention would be that the scheme would be made to provide that a fireman who transfers to service to which this Bill applies would become entitled to a pension calculated on his fire brigade service and payable by his fire authority, if and when he retires from service to which the Bill applies, in circumstances in which a pension is payable in respect of that service. We overlooked this matter when the Bill was drafted and I thought it desirable to bring it immediately to the notice of the Committee.

Mr. David Jones (The Hartlepools)

I merely want to express, on behalf of the A.M.C., its thanks to the Minister for having included this provision in the Bill. My attention was drawn some days ago to the fact that firemen were apparently to be treated differently. I only hope that, having done this, the Minister will have dealt with other sections of the public service under Clause 4, but I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for having clarified a position about which firemen were doubtful.

Mr. Arthur Creech Jones (Wakefield)

Do I gather that, as a result of this provision for pensions and the Amendments which are now being made, adequate provision for pension rights now exist in respect of any appointments which may be made from any sector of the public service? I appreciate that teachers, police, and firemen are provided for, but suppose that it becomes necessary for an appointment to be made from any other section of the public service. A highly professional person or well-qualified technician might be needed in a territory.

Does it follow that, as a result of the Bill, the pension arrangements of that person in the home public service can be transferred and added to the service which he will have in the overseas territories? In other words, are we now completely covered in respect of any of these rather specialised secondments or appointments of people taken from other sections of the home public service?

Mr. Lennox-Boyd

I can safely give the right hon. Gentleman an unqualified assurance that that is so.

Amendment agreed to.

5.45 p.m.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd

I beg to move, in page 4, line 11, to leave out subsection (6).

These words reappear in the new Clause in different terms.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.