§ 15. Mr. Callaghanasked the President of the Board of Trade if he proposes to nominate any of his officers to serve on the joint consultative committee dealing with conditions of employment of employees of the Wales and Monmouthshire Industrial Estates Limited.
§ Sir D. EcclesNo, Sir.
§ Mr. CallaghanHow does the right hon. Gentleman propose to reach a sensible conclusion about these wage claims if he is not present to hear the arguments?
§ Sir D. EcclesApart from the staff representatives, the committee consists of three representatives of the company, two 184 of whom must be directors. All the directors, of course, have been appointed by the Board of Trade. These people will act within the broad limit laid down by the Board of Trade.
§ Mr. CallaghanThat being so, why has the right hon. Gentleman taken the power of decision out of their hands?
§ Sir D. EcclesI have not taken power out of their hands. I have merely said that there are certain limits within which they can negotiate.
§ Mr. J. GriffithsWill the right hon. Gentleman tell us what those limits are?
§ Sir D. EcclesIf this were a private company the limiting factor would be the profits; the directors could not raise salaries beyond the profits they earned. In this case, it is the taxpayer's money, and, therefore, we have to set some limit.
§ Mr. CallaghanThen, since it is the taxpayer's money, why does not the right hon. Gentleman enter into direct negotiations with them, instead of foisting the thing off on to another body and then sheltering behind that, while remaining free to alter its decisions?
§ Sir D. EcclesNo; I have confidence in these gentlemen who have been appointed by the Board of Trade.
§ 16. Mr. Callaghanasked the President of the Board of Trade why he has instructed the Wales and Monmouthshire Industrial Estates Limited that they must consult him before reaching a conclusion on pay claims made by the staff.
§ Sir D. EcclesBecause the salaries of the staff of the Wales and Monmouthshire Industrial Estates Ltd. are, in effect, met from Exchequer funds. It is, therefore, my duty to ensure that any increases are in accordance with the Government's policies for controlling inflation.
§ Mr. CallaghanWhy did this same principle not apply several years ago when the joint machinery was set up at the invitation of the President of the Board of Trade, during the lifetime of the last Government?
§ Sir D. EcclesWe have now financial policies which require this kind of action.
§ Mr. CallaghanIs not the President now giving us the real answer; that this has nothing to do with the negotiating ability of these people, but is political interference by the Government in the settlement of the wages? Does he realise that this Government have the worst reputation of any since 1926 in the handling of industrial relations?
§ Sir D. EcclesIt would be a very bad day when the taxpayer's interests were not taken into consideration.