HC Deb 24 February 1958 vol 583 cc6-9
11 Mr. Bence

asked the Minister of Supply (1) what progress has been made in reaching agreement with Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox on the takeover of the Royal Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir; and what steps he is taking to ensure the full utilisation of men and machines at the factory;

(2) how many skilled grades of his Department's employees at the Royal Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir, have been offered employment by Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox in their respective skilled grades; and what steps he is taking to secure for these men adequate employment or compensation;

(3) if he will state the number of skilled grades employed at the Royal Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir; and what steps he is taking to ensure alternative employment, in their respective grades, in Scotland, in his Department's establishments.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Supply (Mr. W. J. Taylor)

Agreement has been reached for the transfer of the Royal Ordnance Factory at Dalmuir to Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox on 1st January next. They wish to utilise the factory as fully as they can and, in the light of discussions that are in progress, I have every hope that they will need a high proportion of the labour force, as well as much of the machinery. Although the time has not yet come for them to make offers of employment, they propose to set up an employment office at the factory next month to receive inquiries. There are now about 430 skilled workers at the factory.

So far as compensation is concerned, payments to the workpeople leaving the Royal Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir, will be those provided by the Superannuation Acts.

As regards alternative employment, the position of established workers generally is fully set out in the reply which I gave on 6th June, 1957, to the hon. Member for Newton (Mr. Lee). I am sending a copy of this reply to the hon. Member. The established employees at Dalmuir will have the opportunity to transfer to other Government establishments and, so far as possible, we shall try to place them in establishments in Scotland. Every effort will be made by the Ministry of Labour and National Service and the Dalmuir management to secure suitable employment for those workers, including the unestablished employees, who are not otherwise placed.

Mr. Bence

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the skilled established men and the skilled unestablished men at Dalmuir have been informed that very few of them will be required by Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox for the type of work which will be done at the factory, and that much of the highly specialised machinery in the factory will not be required by Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox?

With regard to the last part of Question No. 13, the men understand that if they turn down the offers made to them by Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox, which may be for lower grades of work, there are no vacancies at all in Scotland for them within the Ministry of Supply and that all who do not accept the offer by Messrs. Babcock and Wilcox will have to go south of the Border, which will mean uprooting their families. In view of the growing unemployment among skilled men in Scotland, surely the hon. Gentleman will do something to ensure that these men will be employed in the Dalmuir Factory?

Mr. Taylor

There are differences between the work at the Royal Ordnance Factory and the work of the firm, in consequence of which the pattern of their labour requirements will be somewhat different, and the balance between grades of employee may alter with the change from military work to civil work. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we are making the very best efforts to ensure that the maximum number of workpeople are offered re-employment by the new owners.

With regard to the transfer of employees south of the Border, I sympathise very much with what the hon. Gentleman said and with the objection of Scots to working in England, but there is no saving clause in their favour in the 1948 Government scheme of industrial establishment, which.was freely negotiated with the trade union representatives. It is a part of that agreement that in return for established status employees must accept the responsibility of transferring when requested to do so.

Mr. Bence

In view of the difficulties surrounding this matter, and because I feel that in reply to my three Questions I have not been given a complete answer to the problem, I beg to give notice that I shall take the first opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

14. Mr. D. Griffiths

asked the Minister of Supply when he will introduce the scheme for compensation to redundant employees at Royal Ordnance factories.

Mr. W. J. Taylor

The payments which may be made to these employees on redundancy are governed by the Superannuation Acts, 1834–1957, which apply without discrimination to all Civil Servants, including the workpeople at Royal Ordnance factories. The provisions of these Acts are somewhat complicated, and I am sending the hon. Member a summary of them.

Mr. Griffiths

I am fairly well aware of what the Parliamentary Secretary is going to send me. Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the growing alarm in the country, in view of the Cohen Report, about pending unemployment? Is he aware that the difficulties of the employees in the Royal Ordnance factory represent only the first stepping-stone? Might we ask the Minister to look much more seriously into the matter and to go beyond the Superannuation Act, 1957? It is impossible to expect these people at a late age to be transferred to other employment if it can possibly be avoided.

Mr. Taylor

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is related to a much bigger question, which, I think, will be dealt with in the debate later today. As to the second part of his supplementary question, with the declining military requirement and the reduced needs of defence generally and the Service Departments, the Ministry of Supply can keep factories going only to make goods which are ordered from it, and I have no authority in that respect. With regard to a possible alteration of the Superannuation Acts, that is a matter which should be addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.