Council for Wales and Monmouthshire (Hansard, 16 December 1958)

§ 24. Mr. G. Thomas
asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the reasons given for the resignation of five members of the Welsh Advisory Council; and whether he will make a statement.

§ Mr. H. Brooke
The former Chairman of the Council for Wales and Monmouthshire indicated that the principal reason for his resignation was that the relationship between the Council and the Government had not been close enough. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister sought to meet this criticism by appointing a member of the Government as Chairman for a temporary period. The four members who thereupon resigned gave the reason, among others, that they thought this would frustrate the Council's work.

§ Mr. Thomas
Is the Minister aware that there has not been a more unpopular appointment in the history of the Welsh people? In view of the fact that the leading people of this Council have now resigned, what must the Welsh people do to get the Minister off their backs?

§ Mr. Brooke
I beg leave to doubt the correctness of the implication in the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. On the second part, I thought he was extremely rude to the 23 Welshmen who have not resigned.

§ Mr. J. Griffiths
Do I gather from the Minister's reply that the Chairman resigned because the relations between him and the Government were not close enough and that the other five resigned because they were too close? May I ask a question which has been commented upon in Wales? The Prime Minister has said that the right hon. Gentleman was appointed for an interim period to change the character of the Council. What have the right hon. Gentleman and the Prime Minister in mind in that respect? Is the real reason why these members have resigned the fact that the Council was set up to give independent advice to any Government of the day but that they regard its independence as being undermined by the right hon. Gentleman's presence?

§ Mr. Brooke
In reply to the first part of that question, I have nothing to add to my original Answer. Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman suggested that this was a temporary appointment to change the character of the Council. There was no implication whatever of that nature in the decision of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. On the contrary, he indicated, as the former Chairman of the Council had already said, that in these nine or ten months it would be desirable to review the whole work and functioning of the Council and its future relationship with the Government.

§ Mr. Griffiths
I gather, therefore, that it is correct that the Prime Minister said that the right hon. Gentleman had been appointed Chairman for an interim period so that the function of the Council should be reconsidered. Does the Minister confirm this and that he is to consider changing the Council's function?

§ Mr. Brooke
No. What is to be reviewed is the whole work and functioning of the Council. It is very desirable to have a stocktaking period after ten years, and I think that all members of the Council for Wales are agreed on that. That does not necessarily imply that there will he any changes at the end of it. I repeat that 23 of the 27 other members of the Council have not resigned and, therefore, presumably do not feel frustrated.

§ Mr. H. Morrison
As a former Minister who took a leading part in the establishment of the Council for Wales, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that we deliberately did not include Ministers on the Council and much less as Chairmen? Is he aware that it is desirable for this Council to work in co-operation with the Government but, nevertheless, to be independent of the Government—

§ Mr. Thomas
As the Prime Minister said.

§ Mr. Morrison
—and that, therefore, it is thoroughly undesirable that a Minister and member of the Cabinet should be Chairman of this body and desirable that independent, public-spirited Welshmen should be Chairman of the Council for Wales?

§ Mr. Brooke
I was appointed by the Prime Minister as Chairman for an 946 interim period. My right hon. Friend explained that he was taking emergency action in an emergency situation.

§ 25. Mr G. Thomas
asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the names of the people he proposes to appoint to the Welsh Advisory Council in place of those who resigned.

§ Mr. H. Brooke
The Council was brought up to its full strength of 28 by the appointment last month of Sir Ifan ab Owen Edwards and myself. The filling of the four vacancies which have since occurred is under consideration.

§ Mr. Thomas
Is the Minister aware that he has now reduced this Council to such a laughing stock in Wales that the best thing he could do would be to wind it up, that the Welsh people have no confidence in it, that whether 23 members are left or not, the Welsh people regard it as simply the Minister's voice in Wales and that that is not wanted? [Horn. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]. I am speaking for Wales.

§ Mr. Brooke
There appears to be a fundamental difference between the hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. G. Thomas) and the 23 Welshmen who are loyally continuing to serve on the Council for Wales.

§ Mr. Gower
Is my right hon. Friend aware that it would be extremely difficult for any Member, however clever. to express clearly the opinions of all the people of Wales about this matter?

§ 26. Mr. G. Thomas
asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs to what extent, in view of four additional resignations from the Welsh Advisory Council, he contemplates a change in the policy of Her Majesty's Government with regard to Welsh affairs; and whether he will make a statement.

§ Mr. H. Brooke
The Government contemplate no change in the policy of getting more new houses and schools and roads built in Wales, getting piped water and other modern services laid on to villages and farms hitherto without them, improving the opportunities for Welsh farmers and encouraging new industrial developments. This policy the Government are vigorously and successfully pursuing, and progress since 1951 has been remarkable.

§ Mr. Thomas
Am I therefore to assume that the present rate of unemployment in Wales, which is twice the average for Great Britain and is 10 per cent. in North Wales and 7 per cent. in West Wales, is also a record of the Government's achievements?

§ Mr. Brooke
No, Sir. The whole Welsh people are, however, well aware of the complete failure of the Labour Government to solve the unemployment problem in North-West Wales. Wales is also aware that even within the last twelve months firms that will employ more than 5,000 people have already decided to come and set up in West-South Wales.

§ Mr. Thomas
In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply—

§ Mr. J. Griffiths
And of the Minister himself.

§ Mr. Thomas
—and of the Minister himself—I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the first possible moment.