Members of Parliament (Hansard, 1 December 1958)

§ 34 and 46. Mr. Shinwell
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (1) if he will state the total expenditure incurred by Her Majesty's Government in expenses and allowances to hon. Members attending the meetings of the Council of Europe in the three years 1956 to 1958;
(2) if he will include in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of the hon. Members who have attended the meetings of the Council of Europe in the years 1955 to the latest available date in 1958.

§ The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd)
I assume that the right hon. Gentleman is inquiring about the expenses of hon. Members who are also members of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe. The total of these expenses from the beginning of 1956 until the end of September this year is £23,389, made up of £7,924 in 1956, £9,637 in 1957 and £5,828 to the end of September of this year.
I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of right hon. and hon. Members who have attended these meetings.

§ Mr. Shinwell
If there are any hon. Members who wish to attend future meetings of the Council of Europe and to avail themselves of this Government expenditure, to whom do such hon. Members apply—should it be to the right hon. and learned Gentleman or Mr. Speaker, or to whom?

§ Mr. Lloyd
These appointments or nominations are made by the leaders of the parties. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister nominates those who shall go from this side of the House and the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition nominates those from the official Opposition, and the hon. Member the Leader of the Liberal Party nominates those from that party.

§ Mr. Shinwell
With respect to my right hon. Friend's judgment—I am not taking exception to it—may I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to understand that there are hon. Members who have no means of consultation or, even if there is consultation, feel it somewhat undignified to apply for permission to go to the Council of Europe? Ought we not to have some alternative means more equitable and more satisfactory to enable hon. Members to go if they wish on the basis of their qualifications, if any?

§ Mr. Lloyd
As to the representation from this side of the House, I am satisfied that a strong delegation is sent. I do not think it would be for me to comment so far as the affairs of the Opposition are concerned. It is a matter for the right hon. Gentleman to take up with his right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition.

§ Sir G. Nicholson
While fully recognising the pathos of the position of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for 837 Essington (Mr. Shinwell), there are two questions I should like to ask my right hon. and learned Friend. Am I right in supposing that this is quite distinct from any expenditure incurred by attendance at Western European Union? Secondly, is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that, speaking from past experience, the expenditure of hon. Members attending the Council of Europe, though adequate, is not extravagant?

§ Mr. Lloyd
My hon. Friend is right. This does not include sums spent on meetings of Western European Union, so I am informed. As for the second point, I have frequently heard before what my hon. Friend has said.

§ Mr. Shinwell
Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the applause which accompanied the reference he made and which the hon. Member for Farnham (Sir G. Nicholson) has also made came in the main from those who have either attended in the past or hope to attend in the future?