§ 11.13 a.m.
§ Mr. William Yates (The Wrekin)It has been said that to share an Adjournment Motion in this House with a Member of Her Majesty's Opposition is quite unique. However, I am sure the House will accept the fact that we are today to discuss a unique event—the golden jubilee of the Territorial Army. It must be fitting that, before we rise for the Summer Recess, some tribute should be paid to the Territorial Army by this House, which has an abiding interest in and admiration for it.
Perhaps some of my constituents will wonder why I have chosen to raise this subject and not some other matter which they might consider to be more important to them. I would remind them that Colonel Baldwin Webb, their late Member, was a Territorial Army officer who died in rendering a great service to this country in taking children to America in 1940. This, therefore, seems to be a suitable subject for the Member for The Wrekin division to discuss.
Perhaps also some account should be given of the events which have led up to this debate today. On Wednesday, 25th June, I was talking to the former hon. Member for Morecambe and Lonsdale (Sir I. Fraser) about a debate in another place, and I am sure that we are all glad to congratulate him on his elevation to that other place. We were discussing the debate there, and we decided to try to draft some form of 1786 "early day" Motion, which eventually took the following form:
That this House notes with pleasure the golden jubilee of the Territorial Army and congratulates them on their splendid service for Queen and country in both peace and war and wishes them success as an important part of Great Britain's national defence.The hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg) accepted my offer to share the debate, but he has unfortunately been called out of London. However, we are fortunate enough to have the hon. Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish), who will take his place. I am sure the House will realise that there is no idea in this debate of becoming involved in party politics at all. It is essentially a House of Commons debate, and it is one which is deemed to be useful to allow hon. Members an opportunity to pay tribute to the Territorial Army and to Britain's volunteers.The occasion is also made happier by the fact of an expected contribution from the hon. Lady the Member for Tyne-mouth (Dame Irene Ward), and I look forward in anticipation to her speech, although I expect that the Minister will probably do so in trepidation. I should also like to say that the hon. Member for Dorset, North (Colonel Glyn) has expressed his regret that he cannot be here; he is, of course, a serving member of the Territorial Army on the Brigade Staff.
The other hon. Member who was very interested in the work of the Territorial Army was the late Mr. Wilfred Fienburgh, and I myself admired him, not for his political views particularly, but personally as a man of great courage. I think the House suffered a great loss when he was taken away from us in a tragic accident, and I have no doubt that other hon. Members will agree with the sentiments I have expressed on this matter.
Over the centuries the spirit of the volunteer has been inherent in the freedom-loving people of these islands. It has been a constant source of support for the Territorial Army, and it is the same today. We are fortunate in being possessed of people who do not say "What can I get out of it?" or "Where is the fiddle for me?" but, on the contrary, "What service may I give to my country?", without any question of loss of time, money or benefits. These people 1787 are always present in our community, and it was therefore very remarkable and very wise of Lord Haldane in 1908 to harness this national charactersitic for the benefit of the country's national defence. It is that same spirit of the volunteer which has sustained the Territorial Army for half a century in both peace and war.
Perhaps it would be appropriate today for us to recall that during two wars the Territorial Army has always been the first line reinforcement and the second line of defence. We would also remember with grateful hearts the acts of bravery and devotion by members of the Territorial Army in two wars, and we should not forget the nursing sisters of the Q.A.R.A.N.C. and the First Aid Nursing Yeomanry.
It is not my purpose to discuss interdepartmental rivalries or battles that have taken place concerning the Territorial Army and Civil Defence. Neither am I interested in indulging in a long history of the movement, because there must be other hon. Members here who are far more qualified than I am to talk about the history and traditions of the Territorial Army. I simply cannot talk about what happened between the wars because, at the age of 21, I went to the Battle of Alamein and started my service with the Regular Army and the Territorial Army.
I should prefer to deal with the subject from my own practical experience as a serving Yeomanry officer in both the Warwickshire and Shropshire Yeomanry and to refer to annual camps and squadron training. It should be realised that the No. 1 dress recently issued to most Territorial Army bands has been an enormous success. It has helped recruiting and the Territorial Army in many ways. In Shropshire, no social occasion of any size is really complete without the band in full dress of the Shropshire Yeomanry or the K.S.L.I. I suggest, therefore, that No. I dress must be a priority call for the Territorial Army, but if the Regular Army is not yet fully equipped we are of course prepared to wait, though I hope not for long.
Out-of-camp training is almost as important as annual camps, because it is at these drills that we do the basic training which makes the camps so valuable. I hope, therefore, that the Under-Secretary 1788 of State for War will tell us a great deal about this matter. This training is popular in the Territorial Army, whether it takes place once a week or once a month, and, of course, it provides another opportunity for drawing Army pay.
The recruiting figures which the Territorial Association have kindly supplied to me show that the volunteer strength in Shropshire in August, 1947, was 80 officers and 450 other ranks, while on 30th June, 1958, it was 83 officers and 651 other ranks. The recent financial measures announced by the War Office coincided with the celebration of the golden jubilee. Although Territorials are quite understanding people and appreciate the need for saving, they were rather surprised at this coincidence.
The effect of the announcement has already been felt in the Territorial Army and perhaps could be best illustrated by my reading the orders which I received three days ago from the Yeomanry Headquarters. They were as follows:
Expenditure on out-of-camp training.The last paragraph is the most interesting:
- 1. During the period 1st July to 30th September, 1958, expenditure will be restricted to £1 per head per month.
- 2. There will be no training this coming week, 20th to 27th July.
- 3. In view of the restrictions, it will not be possible to compete in either the Territorial Army rifle meeting at Llansilin or Altcar."
From information received, this restriction in its present form would appear only to be a temporary one and as this will be reviewed in October a serious view of restrictions on future training need not be taken at this stage.This offers the Minister an opportunity to give us an answer. Perhaps he will tell us whether we may now not take a serious view of restrictions on future training and out-of-camp expenditure.Every effort has been made throughout the country to obtain volunteers during the jubilee celebrations. I remember speaking in two open cattle markets, at Wellington and at Newport. It is from both town and country that we draw our volunteers. I thought that the timing of the announcement of financial restrictions was a little inept, but I am sure that the Territorial Army will manage just the same. We have had celebrations in Shropshire and a drumhead service took place at Shrewsbury at which all mayors and chairmen of urban and rural district councils and 1789 clerks were present and also the Bishop of Shrewsbury. We are very fortunate in Shropshire in that the Lord Lieutenant, Viscount Bridgeman, gives such wonderful support to and takes such wholehearted interest in the Territorial Army with which he has had a very long and honourable connection. We are also fortunate in having such an effective auxiliary association which has been of very great help to us all.
In the course of these celebrations the Lord Lieutenant pointed out that the volunteer spirit had come back to the Territorial Army again and that we were relying 100 per cent. on volunteers. Later in the evening there was a celebration in the town and the brewers decided to give a present of 600 pints of beer, but as almost all Shrewsbury was present the beer did not last very long. The recruiting in Shropshire improves, but, of course, much will depend on the Government's decision in allowing the new T.A. centre to be built at Sundorne Road, Shrewsbury. I am convinced that those who have so willingly done their training in the battered nissen huts at Camp E, Trench, must long for the day when this new centre is in operation. To maintain camps like Camp E is to my mind largely a waste of public money.
As to the Territorial Army on a national level, it is the Government's duty to help the country and to understand the need today for a strong and efficient Territorial Army. There seems to be an extraordinary idea in the country expressed in the words, "What is the good? We shall be atomised. What is the point of the T.A.?" It is that sort of attitude that we must try and counter.
§ Mr. PagetSince the hon. Member puts it to me, I must say that I find it more and more difficult to discover the T.A. function and what the Government think it is.
§ Mr. YatesI think that the Territorial Army makes a very valuable contribution.
I can never understand the point of involving the Territorial Army too much in Civil Defence. After all, there is a Mobile Defence Corps. If that needs 1790 support by way of wireless communications or some other help the Territorial Army would of course give it, but I believe that the Territorial Army should be considered to be more of a fighting force and to be more concerned with national defence. It seems also that the Territorial Army is not ready and is not preparing itself for a Regular Army rôle. Besides being the first line of recruits, surely the Territorial Army must be prepared to make itself more efficient and to be ready to be an efficient fighting force at brigade level. Is it not possible for the Territorial Army to do some training with R.A.F. Transport Command? Have any of the units any idea of how to load their vehicles and equipment into heavy aircraft? Ought not the training to be more realistic? If we cannot do some training with the R.A.F., why not do it with Combined Operations?
The need for up-to-date equipment, drill halls and camps remains paramount. If there is a camp, the one thing we ask for—we do not mind whether the tents leak—is that there may always be plenty of hot water and a drying room. Whatever difficulties come the way of the Territorial Army, it will certainly manage with what it has got.
I can think of certain aspects of pay which the Minister might care to consider. Sometimes it seems to me that the pay of senior officers is too much and that fresh thought should be given to pay scales in the Territorial Army. The person who has reached the level in civil life of a major or commanding officer is in a better financial position than the new officer joining the Territorial Army. Therefore, I hope the Minister will look at officers' pay rates with an open mind.
As other hon. Members wish to speak, it is now my privilege and duty to commend to the House again the words which appear on the Order Paper in an early-day Motion:
That this House notes with pleasure the golden jubilee of the Territorial Army and congratulates them on their splendid service for Queen and country in both peace and war; and wishes them success as an important part of Great Britain's national defence.The Territorial Army certainly has all my good wishes and, I am sure, those of all hon. Members.
§ 11.32 a.m.
§ Mr. R. J. Mellish (Bermondsey)Before we are interrupted, which is the usual custom in this House on certain occasions, may I put on record that I think the House is indebted to the hon. Gentleman the Member for The Wrekin (Mr. W. Yates) for raising this important subject? It is a great pleasure to me to be associated with him in this Adjournment debate and I want to make it clear that I am speaking not for myself only, but for my right hon. and hon. Friends on this side of the House in joining him in some of his tributes—